AKo $100+9 in a Big Pot

Jman28 · #1 04-27-2005, 11:43 PM

So, I'm fairly confident about my preflop play, but feel free to comment.

I'm just curious about how you'd play the flop. With this many callers of a large reraise, what are the odds I'm up against say, KQ or QQ?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

MP2 (t965)
MP3 (t1130)
CO (t1940)
Button (t1060)
SB (t1150)
Hero (t975)
UTG (t970)
UTG+1 (t835)
MP1 (t975)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 1 fold, MP2 calls t30, MP3 raises to t60, 1 fold, Button calls t60, 1 fold, Hero raises to t175, UTG+1 calls t145, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t115, Button calls t115.

Flop: (t745) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero ??

Scuba Chuck · #2 04-28-2005, 12:01 AM

UTG+1 really screws this up for you. One is, why does he call this big raise after just limping (any notes on this guy?). Next after he calls, he makes it more likely others will call.

Jman28 · #3 04-28-2005, 12:27 AM

No, no reads at all.

I've just never seen a situation like this.

I have no idea what to bet if I should.

-Jman28

adanthar · #4 04-28-2005, 12:33 AM

I would just call this PF, but now I think the only bet you can make is a push.

The only way you're getting off the hand is if you check and there's an all in *and* a call in front - maybe not even then. If you push it's theoretically possible that you can get JT or a flush draw out now, so may as well try that.

Jman28 · #5 04-28-2005, 12:44 AM

Could you or anyone else explain the reasoning behind calling the flop?

I hear this said a lot, and haven't heard the thinking behind it.

Thanks.

-Jman28

adanthar · #6 04-28-2005, 12:52 AM

If you mean PF, I will always raise this from the BB if it's limped to me, but out of position to a bunch of unknowns I don't see anything wrong with calling when it's raised. The problem with reraising is that you get called by *one* guy too often and continuation bets in these types of pots get really expensive when you miss. Vs. two people, you can justify check/folding when you miss, but you're almost obliged to make that bet HU and now it's for half your stack.

(Also, I'd rather see a flop for 30 with a concealed TPTK I can checkraise than have to muck to an all in 3 bet from frisky jacks.)

JasonP530 · #7 04-28-2005, 01:34 AM

I wouldnt worry about QQ as much as KQ since most people like to play QQ pretty fast preflop. I think you needed to reraise more preflop(if youre going to reraise) both since youre out of position, and youre giving your opponents pretty good odds to call(almost 2-1 for the initial raiser, if noone else calls).

Donating · #8 04-28-2005, 02:05 AM

Your raise is pretty bad. You are giving everyone between 3-4:1 on their calls w/position (huge) after you have pretty narrowly defined your hand. After the first caller, this is almost a no brainer for everyone else. In order to price people out, you need to raise much more - and a significantly larger percentage of your stack. Committing 1/4 of your stack with a drawing hand out of position sucks - this is why you don't re-raise.

After the flop, you must decide if you think your hand is good. If so, push. If not, check and see how the action develops.

Jman28 · #9 04-28-2005, 03:05 AM

My problem with not reraising at all is that I don't want to let low pocket pairs get in with good enough odds to show a profit.

Thoughts on that?

-Jman28

Donating · #10 04-28-2005, 03:31 AM

Even if they assume you have an overpair, your raise almost prices them in, not including the implied odds. This is why a bigger raise is required. But, if you make a bigger raise, any continuation bet will committ you to the pot. So - unless you are willing to check/fold a flop that misses you - you are basically risking your entire tournament by re-raising.