Does Iraqi Terrorsism Provide Insight into Terrorism Against Israel?

[adios]

My take is that many critics of Israel have maintained for a long time that Israeli government policies are the root cause of such terrorism. I suppose that these same critics might point to terrorism killing Iraqi citizens and blame it on the U.S. even though the current Iraqi coalition government was elected by it's people. It looks to me like a reasonable person could conclude that the terrorists are violently opposed to freely elected governments and that all the ranting about a Palestinian homeland is just that and that a Palestinian homeland would in no way, shape or form end the violence directed at Israel by the terrorists.

[dr_venkman]

I always thought the root cause of Palestinian terrorism was that Isreal was built where they used to be living. Israel's government policies are sort of irrelevant beyond that point.

Iraqi terrorism is now mainly spurred by a foreign occupying force.

Seems to me that all you're saying is that those who have lost wars should shut up and accept their defeat. Which I might agree with if I wasn't the one who had just been defeated.

You conquer a country and you're going to have a long battle to pacify the newly conquered population. Bus bombs and the occasional rocket just goes with the territory of conquering people.

[andyfox]

Talk of a Palestinian homeland is not always "ranting." President Bush talks of it.

Methinks perhaps your post is too black-and-whitish. While there are all manners of criticism, critics of Israeli government policies have suggested that those policies have at times exacerbated the problem. To look at the history over the last fifty plus years and to say Israeli government policies have had no effect on levels of violence is to suggest that it doesn't matter who was in office or what they did. To say that the violence is merely an opposition to freely elected governments puts it into a vaccuum in which Israeli policies are then irrelevant. There certainly is an element, one would think, of such opposition in the violence, by some of the groups or individuals responsible. But do you really think nothing would change were there a Palestinian state?

[chabibi]

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But do you really think nothing would change were there a Palestinian state?

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I really think nothing would change if there were a palestinians state simply because palestinian terrorism was quite common when gaza was part of egypt and the westbank was part of jordan.

[MMMMMM]

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But do you really think nothing would change were there a Palestinian state?



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I really think nothing would change if there were a palestinians state simply because palestinian terrorism was quite common when gaza was part of egypt and the westbank was part of jordan.

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I think this is a valid point although I don't think (nor do I think you mean) that absolutely nothing would change.

In response to Andy's post too, I also think perhaps adios couched the question/scenario in very simple terms (perhaps for a reason;-)?)

I'd like to add that looking at the Hamas Charter it is very clear that there are significant Palestinian elements who would not stop trying to attack/destroy Israel even if a Palestinian state were to be created. This conflict goes back much further than the disputes over the occupied territories, and there are elements who will NEVER accept a Jewish state in the Middle East. Some of those elements might try at times talking out of both sides of their mouths for political/propaganda purposes, but it is pretty clear what they really have in mind (both by their words to each other which are not intended for world publicity, and by their actions in attacking and supporting the attacks upon Israel. Heck some of them even openly state that Israel can never be permitted to exist permanently.

Might a Palestinian state reduce attacks or mollify some of the radical elements? Well somewhat yes perhaps but the other side to the coin is that a state can make mutual defense treaties with neighbors and has greater access to armaments.

Also on that other side of the coin is that many fanatics view concessions either as weakness on the part of the other side, and/or a chance to consolidate and build for future aggression. So all in all it would be hard to form much of a prediction.

Perhaps a state should be created with a Super-Fence next to it for Israel's protection. Or maybe the descendants of the original Palestinians should just move to Jordan etc. and be given financial help in resettling. After all it was never their land or homes they were displaced of anyway. My grandparents' house is not my house, really;-)

Local considerations aside, even, this flies in the face of what some would consider justice, as well as in the face of many Arab Supremacists, who maintain that the entire Middle East should be considered "Arab land".

Heh, let's see how far we get today if we try to claim that the USA or England is "Anglo Land" and all other races should leave or be treated as second-class-citizens under the law. Not very far, I'd imagine, but many Arabs (and especially vocally, bin-Laden) have no problem whatsoever declaring the entire Arabian Peninsula to be "Arab Land". And just what the hell is Israel doing smack-dab in the middle of "Arab Land", they wonder? This cannot stand!

That is the mindset that will have to be outgrown (generations, sadly) if this sort of thing is to eventually be resolved and such differences fade into the past.

[johnc]

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Local considerations aside, even, this flies in the face of what some would consider justice, as well as in the face of many Arab Supremacists, who maintain that the entire Middle East should be considered "Arab land".
Heh, let's see how far we get today if we try to claim that the USA or England is "Anglo Land" and all other races should leave or be treated as second-class-citizens under the law. Not very far, I'd imagine, but many Arabs (and especially vocally, bin-Laden) have no problem whatsoever declaring the entire Arabian Peninsula to be "Arab Land". And just what the hell is Israel doing smack-dab in the middle of "Arab Land", they wonder? This cannot stand!

That is the mindset that will have to be outgrown (generations, sadly) if this sort of thing is to eventually be resolved and such differences fade into the past.

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Might I also add to this that terrorism has undergone a certain instutionalization worldwide with terrorist organizations (IRA,Al Quida,PLO) become in many respects bureaucratic in nature and very well intrenched into the societies in which they reside. Unfortunately, the US has played a huge role in Bin Ladin's rise during the Aghanistan war with the Soviets. In a sense once the Soviets were driven out of Afghanistan the Talliban were left in control and Bin Ladin re-directed his hatred from the USSR to the US. Also, alot of "freedom fighters" were out of jobs and many found themselves plying their covert skills (ala US training) in terrorist endevors. Terrorism existing for the sake of terrorism. It seems logical to me that given these sets of circumstances terrorism would continue to exist against Isreal, US, England, or who ever, to some extent until these organizations are broken down from within not necessarily with bombs and bullets.