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#31
04-18-2005, 10:24 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And if i were so foolish and I no so little compared to you why would u want me to stop playing poker? [/ QUOTE ] Because I'm a nice guy. [ QUOTE ] From your ignorance alone I can tell I would love to see you in a tourney at my table anytime. [/ QUOTE ] Oh, you're the angry kind. Okay. Would you like to play a nice HU freezeout sometime? [ QUOTE ] I really call into question a large portion of this communities actual understanding of the varations of play between a cash game and a tourtment! Especially after how many people have simply brushed this post off. [/ QUOTE ] We've brushed it off because this is the ten thousandth thread on the subject and you never bothered lurking before posting. [ QUOTE ] In a tourt simply being a favorite doesn't mean you want to play for all your chips, especialy in the early stages! [/ QUOTE ] When you play me HU, your skill advantage is huge so make sure to fold a lot. [/ QUOTE ] LOL I LOVE THIS POST UNBELIEVEABLE! You challenge him to a duel, as if a single HU freeze would prove something. YOur very full of yourself! VERY CLOSE MINDED! PLEASE IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING USEFUL TO SAY DON'T POST AGAIN! We would all be alot better off. 
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#33
04-18-2005, 10:34 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
I have a suggestion . . . if you find the discussion so boring, click ignore this thread. I am actually not afraid enough of going in. I am going in a lot, stealing a lot, and busting out as the favorite a lot. What I am NOT doing is WINNING a lot. So flame away, but I am looking for intelligent discussion. And, I want it so much that I am willing to put up with anything (hint, hint) to get to it. [/ QUOTE ] you act like we don't have this thread every month. We do. We make the same arguement. You don't listen. Here's the point. Tournaments are very, very, very high variance. Anytime you have to win 10 or so edges to win, it's hard. Sometimes you can steal a lot and avoid some, sometimes you flop quads and bust a table, but it doesn't happen every tourney. So you'll have KK vs AKs and AA vs QQ and cards do happen. If you think you are so good as to raise AA then fold the flop whenever anyone plays back at you, go ahead and do so. Just realize that most of your chips come from winning these edges with these monster hands.
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#34
04-18-2005, 10:38 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
Sklansky gives a classic (although contrived) example where folding AA pre-flop is correct: You are at WSOP final table with several opponents with equal stacks of 20x your stack. All of a sudden they all go all in in front of you. Obviously you fold and move up to second. Whether you hold AA or 23.
But I can understand the need to flame.
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#35
04-18-2005, 10:48 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
Sklansky gives a classic (although contrived) example where folding AA pre-flop is correct: [/ QUOTE ] page ninety six HPFAP we know, search old threads for more does not apply here
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#36
04-18-2005, 10:51 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
LOL I LOVE THIS POST UNBELIEVEABLE! You challenge him to a duel, as if a single HU freeze would prove something. YOur very full of yourself! VERY CLOSE MINDED! PLEASE IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING USEFUL TO SAY DON'T POST AGAIN! We would all be alot better off. [/ QUOTE ] He is frustrated But well meant; you are angry Not proof; I like cash
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#37
04-18-2005, 10:56 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
Do you see the distinction between calling All-In with a heavy favorite, and intiating a confrontation against a larger stack with a heavy favorite?
Has that been discussed, and do you feel it is worth discussion?
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#39
04-18-2005, 11:02 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
Disclaimer, I am going to try and answer your post with no tone, so hopefully i don't come across as having one.
I think that when you are dealing with AA and for the vast majority of the time KK, there is not a distinction. You want the money to go in, so your hoping you get it in what ever way possible. I think as your card values go down, and i think QQ is probably the bubble hand, you want to be the aggressor, as having fold equity and picking up the pot as it is becomes more valuable. This is because your preflop edge goes down.
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#40
04-18-2005, 11:06 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
Yes. Initiating a confrontation is worse, because it lets him see a flop and possibly get you to put chips in when you are behind as opposed to killing him. On the other hand, if he wants to call all in/push all in as an 81% dog, sweet.
You are badly confused about what a 'small edge' is. 53/47 is relatively small when you are by far the best player in a $5 SNG. 60/40 is a big edge that most pros will never pass up. 80/20 is a slaughter. When he has QQ and you have aces with those chip stacks and blinds, you lose the most EV when he sees a flop with most of his stack not in the middle - and not even because he can flop a Q. (Rather, it's when the flop comes Kxx or Axx, he folds, and you miss out on a very easy doubleup.) This has all been discussed roughly seventy billion times and I really wish I could do a haiku version of it, but I'm not *that* bored.
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