What would your play be?

[cavalier]

Playing 7SHL8 $1/$2 with 25 cent ante, 50 cent bring-in.

You are in the 4 seat with [9 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] ] k [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

Seat 6 brings in with 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] . This player plays the same starting hands you do, plus 10% that you don't. He's winning and doesn't sail along too much. If he's in, he's usually got "a shot".

Seats 7 & 8 both fold.

Seat 1 calls with [xx]3 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] . This player sees lots of cards. 80% of the time, he sees 4th. He's losing and is expected to donate the rest of the game. You noticed how he seems to love playing heads-up, especially from 3rd street. He'll never let a bring-in get all the way back to the opener. You've seen this happen about 7 of 7 times so far. He's got to be in there!

Seats 2 & 3 fold to you.

Seat 5 has a tight player showing T [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] . If he plays, he's got a 3-flush or tens or better. Since there are 3 hearts on the board, the flush is unlikely. He hasn't shown any "questionable" starting hands in the 5 or so showdowns he's been in. You are pretty sure he'll fold.

1) What's your play? And, why?

*) We are very interested in your thoughts if you fold the hand. Would you show them that you are folding Kings ... and why/why_not?

[Andy B]

Why on earth would you be thinking of folding? Were there any Kings showing? Or maybe the other three Nines? You need a good reason to fold Kings on third street. An Ace raising coming in would be a good reason. Maybe if there were a lot of low cards jamming. Having a single limper with only a Ten and the bring-in left to act is about as good as it gets for split Kings. OK, it would be better if the limper were showing a Ten.

Given your characterization of your opponents, I think that raising is clearly the correct play. Big pairs play better short-handed, and you have a good chance to get it heads-up with a player who may not have a damned thing. You should probably keep betting unless the low hands develop strongly. If you thought that the two players behind you were likely to call, you might just limp and hope that they busted out. Even if you raise and get called in three spots, you're getting more money in with the best hand.

Rarely should you show hands when you don't have to. In fact, if you never did it, that would be close to optimal. In particular, you should not show anyone that you are capable of laying down a strong hand. You invite people to run over you, and you just might make them play better. Who needs that?

[34TheTruth34]

bigleftie--
Here are some thoughts I had about your post.

1. I have to agree with AndyB that given the particular game conditions you describe, a raise is definitely in order. HOWEVER, let the records show that if this hand took place in the .50/1.00 Paradise Poker game or the Foxwoods 2-10 spread limit game (both games have no ante), I would fold. As an aside, in the no ante games I would also fold (K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] -4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] )-J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] and (J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] -4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] )-K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] even with no other diamonds showing.

2. As I mentioned in a post in the small stakes hold 'em section, I sometimes show my hand after folding. There are numerous reasons for doing this, but I won't get into that now. Having said that, you absolutely, positively CANNOT show you're hand in this situation. The reason for that (which somebody else on this forum mentioned---Ray Zee maybe???) is that you don't want your opponents to start to think about why you would fold a big pair on 3rd street in this game.

MDL

[Andy B]

'Twas I who said that he shouldn't want his opponents to think about why he would fold two Kings. I'm flattered that someone would confuse something I said for something that Ray Zee said. Ray would use about 1/4 as many words, though.

[34TheTruth34]

'Twas I who said that he shouldn't want his opponents to think about why he would fold two Kings. I'm flattered that someone would confuse something I said for something that Ray Zee said. Ray would use about 1/4 as many words, though.

Yup, I remember now, that was you. Sorry. Anyway, what you said was very simple, but I think it was great insight. It's vital that they continue to limp in with their jacks and tens as door cards, especially if a queen or king has already limped.