88 to the test

[Chris Daddy Cool]

This may seem a little basic to you guys, but here I go.

30+3 PL on on stars, 95 entries, final table pays

we're at the final table with 8 left, blinds are 600/1200. I have a slightly above average stack with 20k. big stack has 50k. he was pretty aggressive in the bubble period with 10 left before they combined tables, but since the final table started he's been relatively quiet.

he pot sizes it to 4800 in MP. I'm in the SB with 88. I suspect no matter what I do, the BB will fold. Flatcall or raise?
















Well I raised to 12k (too much?) and puts me all in. I should call this right? too easy?

[Algasm]

Chris,
88 should be a big enough hand to defend with in the blinds against an aggressive big stack. I think your 12k reraise is good. You likely have the best hand. When he pushes over the top there isn't much you can do as you've put over half your stack in already. You have to call at this point. Other people might mention that this is a great time for a stop and go but I think you have the best hand here a majority of the time and you want to get your money in while you are ahead. I'm sorry he had QQ or whatever, that's poker. If it makes you feel an better I would play it the same way because he should be opening with a lot of hands here.
He is in MP but he should still try to run over the table. It's tougher but I still like how you played it. Was the BB weak tight and folding to blind steals?

[Bataglin]

Fold preflop

[Algasm]

What do you defend with? 10s and up. AK to AQs? Just curious.

[Jason Strasser]

CDC

First of all make a plan before you raise to 12k, at least know what you're going to do if he goes all in. (there isnt really a decision there though getting better than 4:1)

Folding pf here isnt against the law--especially if there are some v small stacks and the payouts increase significantly. I feel like the stacks are too deep to stop and go, and that against a typical range of hands the best move if you choose to play I think is to reraise for your stack.

If you had, say something like 11k chips, you would have much more FE doing a stop and go (calling and pushing flop regardless of the cards... unless maybe you flop a set but I still push). But with your stack you can get him to fold PF without stop and going, and you can avoid the disaster of calling pf and him busting you with a hand you would've gotten to fold preflop.

-Jason

[fnord_too]

I think I fold this pre flop. If I play, in pot limit I probably flat call. This hand is actually pretty interesting because I think it play very differently in PL than in NL. In a NL tourney, it's really a push or fold, or maybe you call and push "safe" flops. In PL, you are hosed because your stack is too big to just push but too small to get meaningful information from the action. (By meaningful, I mean you can use the information effectively. That is, and this is hard to articulate, the action you use to determine where you are at has to leave you with enough chips to extract the right price from villain to make up for those times you are going to fold. Sort of like not playing 22 for set value if you have to call off 1/5 of your stack pre flop).

So, what I think I am trying to say is that because there is a governor on the action, (the pot size), you should muck this.

You are definitely pot commited after you make your raise. Here's where I think you are at:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 38.2711 % [ 00.38 00.00 ] { 8d8c }
Hand 2: 61.7289 % [ 00.62 00.00 ] { AA-TT, AKs-AJs, AKo-AQo }
</pre><hr />

Give or take a few hands. (My hand range is pretty tight since this guy seems to understand bubble / post bubble scenarios. He has clamped down knowing that people play much more loose/aggressive post flop. Danger!! This guy knows wtf he's doing.)

There is no amount you can raise and not be pot commited here, so if you are going to raise, pot it and make sure villain knows you are going the whole way so you at least have the most possible folding equity.

To sum up:
Folding &gt; Calling &gt; Raising Maximum &gt;&gt; Raising some other amount
Fold and use your position on 7/8 of the hands to your advantage.

In NL, I think pushing or folding are close.