A very basic question about early action decisions with draws

[wax311]

You're in a multiway pot (maybe 4-6 people) with no preflop raise. The flop brings you a flush draw with no overcards and you are first or second to act. Is the correct play to bet out, trying to build a pot, or check, hoping to keep it multiway so you are more likely to be paid off more when you do hit? Here's an example:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ??? </font>

Bet or check?

I have been betting out a lot on hands like these, but I have recently been weighing the two options.

Bet
-Advantages: builds a pot in which you have more than your share of equity against 5 opponents, the bet is deceptive, there's a small chance you will win the pot right there
-Disadvantages: you will usually have less opponents going into the expensive rounds of betting as you would if you had check-called

Check
-Advantages: check-call is more likely to retain more opponents going into the expensive betting rounds, a bet from your immediate left and a couple calls opens up the check-raise possibility in which you trap everyone for two bets, check-calling opens up the possibility of check-raising the turn or river when you do hit your draw
-Disadvantages: you usually will not have as many bets going into the pot on the flop as you would have if you bet out, and it can be checked through, in which case the pot would be less than 4BB on the turn so opponents will be less likely to call with marginal hands when you hit your card on the turn or river.

I think it all comes down to the question of which is priority is more important: building the pot when you have high equity, or keeping it as multiway as possible to increase your implied odds when you hit your draw.

Thoughts?

Also: In this example, I had a flush draw and a gutshot. How would your play is this situation differ if you had no gutshot, just the straight draw? One overcard? Two overcards and the flush draw?

[shadow29]

bet. have you read sshe?

[flipflop1970]

I would bet since you have both a flush draw and straight draw. also i is only 1 bet here to call more people will call the one bet. If you check but hit on the turn you would then have to bet 2 bets and more likely have people fold around you. and then no money is in the pot. I would semi-bluff and then check on the turn.

[wax311]

[ QUOTE ]
bet. have you read sshe?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, twice all the way through plus short readings here and there. I'm fuzzy about what Sklansky said about this, so I should go back and see what it says.

Regardless, I think there are circumstances where the check-raise option are powerful. Definately if you have a preflop raiser or a maniac to your immediate left.

[MagicFlea]

I think people overestimate implied odds in places like this

in SSH Slansky only talks about implied odds when there a decision that is just on the side of folding becomes one where you can call or raise because of implied odds (i.e. if you are 8.5:1 to hit your straight and the pot is 8-1 then you can call because of implied odds)

however implied odds are never a substitute for building the pot

is this the right idea?

[wax311]

[ QUOTE ]
bet. have you read sshe?

[/ QUOTE ]

I found something very similar to my example in SSH hand quizzes. The only difference really is that it was raised preflop:

You: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in BB
UTG raises, 3 players cold-call, you call [10.5 sb]
Flop: K:[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (flush draw and gutshot)
You're first to act

Sklansky says to go for a check-raise because the preflop raiser is to your immediate left. He explains that it's the best way to maximize the value of your draw, mainly because if you bet out UTG is likely to raise and blow the field away.

I'm questioning a scenario where you have no preflop raise. As a simple, common scenario, is it correct to bet out in this situation where you just have a flush draw and one overcard:

You're SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
5 callers, no preflop raise (5SB)
Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Bet or check?

Also Shadow if you could point out a chapter or page number where SSH says to bet out in hands like these, that would be great. There's the "Evaluating the Flop: Drawing Hands" section, but it merely says which draws are strong, marginal, ect. and doesn't really explain how to play them in specific situations like this.