More White House Torture

[Zeno]

I was purposely being a nitpicker on the wording to get a point across.

A little reflection would show that assuming all upon release are innocent just does not follow. Presumed innocent in point of law, yes, but in actual terms this can still be an unknown. Some may be released to be followed or for other reasons. We are not privy to all the facts.

And simply because I make this little nitpicker point, it does not follow that I personally advocate or approve of the tactics use by the authorities in question.

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What kind of people think like you? Stalinist apparatchiks? Vicarious sadists? Mental defectives? It's weird in America and getting worse.

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Rather silly statement, in my opinion.

I'm a stoic.

You could spend your energies in a much more constructive manner than you have so far in this thread and in many others. Some of the posts you make are excellent and well done; others are so strange as to make me think you have trouble controlling your political passions and that is not a logical or constructive way to conduct a serious debate and detracts from otherwise good points that you may make. That is, if you wish to be taken seriously, and I always assume you do, you certainly appear to be and act like each thread is some legal brief, a judicial review, or in a trial setting. Hence, one reason for my nit picking point.

But all this is water under the bridge to me. I sense that constructive advice from someone that you perceive as a ‘mental defective’ or a ‘Stalinist apparatchik’ is probably doomed to failure.

However, I will suggest you read some Seneca.

-Zeno

[zaxx19]

Non citizens have constitutional rights


I love how this statement slips past 15 posters while my statements(which are opinion..and not meant to be taken entirely seriously) elicits rebukes.

NON CITIZENS DO NOT HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AT ALL...
NOT EVEN THE MOST LIBERAL ATTORNEY WOULD ASSERT THAT "CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS APPLY TO NON CITIZENS" YOU ARE ONCE AGAINS FLAT WRONG. IT ISNT A MATTER OF OPININION JUST FACT.

[Voltorb]

You guys want some tinfoil... I'm sure I got some extra around here somewhere.

Was all that just a really long way to say the Bush administration is made up of a bunch of homicidal maniacs?
I could get behind that satement.

[vulturesrow]

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This is refreshing candor from a so-called conservative. The three accounts of torture in my post referred to innocent people being tortured and then released without charge. The authentic right-wing response is to applaud, to encourage the people doing it to "carry on" and even asking "can I buy videos of it happening?"

It's an example of what I keep saying about how contemporary conservatism is just a political manifiestation of psychopathology that's fostered and tolerated because it serves the interests of power. Rightists rhetoric about liberal ideals such as freedom, democracy and human rights is a trojan horse to legitimize the jucier prospect of burning children. The compulsion toward sexual sadism in this case might be more pronounced, but it's just a more explicit admission of a widespread American desire to torture and kill foreigners for its own sake, the psychological source of energy for so much of America's right wing.

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Looks like you have finally embraced your inner nutcase.

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Then so have I, because Chris's posts make a lot of sense to me.

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If you have believe that rightist thought is just cover for the "jucier prospect of burning children" or that "the widespread American desire to torture and kill foreigners for its own sake, the psychological source of energy for so much AMerica's right wing" is true, then yes, you also have embraced your inner nutcase.

[Chris Alger]

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NON CITIZENS DO NOT HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AT ALL...
NOT EVEN THE MOST LIBERAL ATTORNEY WOULD ASSERT THAT "CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS APPLY TO NON CITIZENS" YOU ARE ONCE AGAINS FLAT WRONG. IT ISNT A MATTER OF OPININION JUST FACT.

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You have no idea what you're talking about. The Supreme Court has recognized that constituional rights of non-citizens in the U.S. for over a century. See, e.g., Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 211-212 (1982) (illegal aliens protected by Equal Protection Clause); Kwong Hai Chew v. Colding, 344 U.S. 590, 596 (1953) (resident alien is a "person" within the meaning of the Fifth Amendment); Bridges v. Wixon, 326 U.S. 135, 148 (1945) (resident aliens have First Amendment rights); Russian Volunteer Fleet v. United States, 282 U.S. 481 (1931) (Just Compensation Clause of Fifth Amendment); Wong Wing v. United States, 163 U.S. 228, 238 (1896) (resident aliens entitled to Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights); Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 369 (1886) (Fourteenth Amendment protects resident aliens). The Rhenquist Court recently reiterated the rule: "aliens receive constitutional protections when they have come within the territory of the United States and developed substantial connections with this country." United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, 494 U.S. 259, 271 (1990).