I flop TPTK but I'm facing an all-in - Page 2

Cleveland Guy · #11 03-03-2005, 03:45 PM

I didn't say you had to fold Pre - Flop. I would have thought of raising it up. Trying to either see if the UTG wants to push pre-flop, or narrow the field.

I think the call here is just bad cause you never know where you are in the hand.

I try and avoid multi-way pots early in a tourney cause I don't have any reads yet. I also want that tight aggresive image - and calling 100, then folding does not give me that image.

Brad F. · #12 03-03-2005, 03:49 PM

Without reading results or the other posts, this all-in seems completely desparate to me. If he has kings or aces and he's buying in 100 dollars I would assume that he'd try and at least extrapolate some chips from you. If he had a set, he'd slowplay in all liklihood. I would almost say that it's an underpair such as jacks maybe.

We are seeing more in more in bigger buy-ins folks going all-in with great hands in wierd places to confuse us thinkers. On a rainbow flop like this with now draws to really speak of this all-in seems like a desparation bet to me.

Brad

Bill Poker · #13 03-03-2005, 03:53 PM

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Is a call that bad here? We have a big multiway pot brewing and maybe I can hit the flop hard and get alot of chips -- But i ended up just flopping TPTK and I didn't know what to do.

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I think you answered your own question.

Being out of position, early in a tournament, with 5 to the flop - what are you hoping to see here?

Axx - with the xx both being hearts?

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how about xxx all hearts?

iRoD · #14 03-03-2005, 05:58 PM

I disagree with the people on this post that are saying that they are calling taking 5-1 pot odds with AQ from the BB. I feel like this is an easy place to get in trouble for a decent chunk of your stack early.

When taking the pot odds aren't the hands you want to play basically pocket pairs? They typically won't get you in much trouble as you either hit your flop or don't. I would think you have great implied odds if you hit your set, and you might even double.

That being said, once you hit your Q high flop I like your check raise line but the push from the original raiser obviously slows you down. Looks like KK or AA to me...

I guess you don't have many reads on the table as its only the first level, which is a further reason to sit this hand out. I'd fold preflop and probably to the push on the flop.

Cheers, Pat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

betgo · #15 03-03-2005, 06:39 PM

If UTG+1 has AA or KK, why does he overbet push on the flop? Still, it is difficult to call here.

Obviously, this is one of the better flops you are going to get.

I would call preflop, particularly since you are suited. Having a suited ace is big as it may give you a nut flush or nut flush draw. High cards don't play well 5-handed, but suited hards do. I would rather have 22 in this situation preflop, but AQs is a big hand. I think folding it preflop is tight.

joeboe2001 · #16 03-03-2005, 06:53 PM

Everyone has to buy in directly, so the competition is pretty decent.

I think the fact that everyone has to buy in reflects wealth, not skill. Even if it does portend skill, all that means is that more people are more likely to be playing according current wisdom.

Your only read on your opponent seems to be that he has enough money to pay for this tournament--you have no choice but to believe him. That said, you have no choice but to fold, unless you think your chances of having/pulling a winning hand are about 75%. You have a small chance of getting another Q, a small chance of pulling a flush, and a slightly larger chance of getting 2 pair, though the A that gives you 2 pair may well give him a set.

I think anyone that would call this falls in your category of "shouldn't be playing a $100 tournament." I would be patient and wait for a better situation to risk all my chips.

tiger7210 · #17 03-03-2005, 07:05 PM

I see nothing wrong with flat calling with AQs out of position here. Without any reads you have to give UTG 5x BB raise some respect as well as 4 others cold calling behind. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if raiser has JJ/TT/AKs but AA/KK is certainly possible even though a 5x BB raise seems pretty stiff for such a big pair. His push on the flop would be a very bold bluff with 3 others still to act in the hand. My best guess is he has AQ/KQ and figures nobody has AA/KK's without a reraise PF and is semibluufing. Really the only hands that certainly call are a set and even AQ is a difficult decision as you found out. If you had 4 to the flush I'm calling but with only a backdoor flush draw and possibly only 5 other outs if he doesn't have AA's I'm folding here and not happy about it. Without any reads its too early for me to call off my whole stack. It's certainly one of those hands where you are either way ahead or way behind.

billyjex · #18 03-03-2005, 07:16 PM

I would call PF here again.. I don't see the harm in taking a flop if I could get away with...

TPTK. Which I couldn't. I think the hands he's pushing here are AA, KK, AK, or a small chance of JJ. I think I hit call without really evaluating the situation, his push did look fishy to me like he had AK and was trying to buy the pot.

He had KK. Not really worth the risk to call here so early.

adanthar · #19 03-03-2005, 07:23 PM

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I didn't say you had to fold Pre - Flop. I would have thought of raising it up. Trying to either see if the UTG wants to push pre-flop, or narrow the field.

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That's, like, REALLY bad. Go ahead and reraise to 300 and watch UTG push; can you call? Better yet, let's say he just calls, along with 1 or 2 of the momos behind him. How many flops do you now like out of position for 20% of your stack? Can you completely rule out that he's just called AK (I would in his spot?)

It's a $100 tourney. They're not great but it's not 10+1 on Party.

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I see nothing wrong with flat calling with AQs out of position here.

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I said the same thing in a very long thread in the SNG forum about a similar hand. The two major differences? It was a low buyin, and more importantly, the UTG raise was to 40.

The size of the pot makes a very big difference in this hand. Yes, this is a fishy bet if he has aces, and yes, with no read you may have to grit your teeth and hope he only has jacks or KQ or AK. But the pot is so big on the flop that you are tying yourself to it when you only flop an A or (especially) a Q, and that's why you have got to fold in the first place.

betgo · #20 03-03-2005, 07:29 PM

I might have called here. He is playing KK strangely with the 5xBB raise preflop and the push on the flop. Villain may not be that strong a player and thinks he should make a big bet with a big hand. The fact that he got 4 callers preflop shows that the play is kind of loose passive this early even at $100 buyin. Maybe villain thought his big bets would get action, and obviously they did.