Folding AA + flush draw to all in early. Weak?

[partygirluk]

There was a very similar post by Trn a few days ago. This is a really really really bad fold.

[two_dogs]

You gotta go with the callers here.At $10 your opponent could have anything.The only way to move up is to learn and play correct strategy however for 10 bucks i ain't layin down aces and the the nut flsh draw! Ever!

[Cleveland Guy]

Were you check raised all in?

If so - that's even more screaming for a call. You made a lousy stab at the flop - and he took it for being weak. I would call in a second.

A bigger mistake is your preflop play.

I know you said you want to build a pot, but you really don't want to play AA in a multiway pot. After the number of limpers in front fo you - I would have made a pot sized raise. Which would have been a raise to about 75 or so.

Your raise to 35 isn't going to get you any feeling for any hand your villians might be playing. and if they were going to limp with 32s, then they will call a min raise for it too.

And yes you said it was a 2.2 x bb raise, but at this level that is the same as a min raise.

[bigredlemon]

the reason I folded this was that this screamed baby flush protecting against higher card. H'es not going to be reraising all in with top pair here because anyone with a flush with flush draw + overcards are going to have odds against him (and I'm sure most people at my level would call with overcards and a flush draw)

No one here believes he has the flush?

Anyway I ended up getting QQ, KK, AA several times yesterday, and decided to bet out 4xBB each time. I ended winning just the blinds each time, except the two times I got called, and an A hit the flop.

I'm really feeling uneasy about the large raise preflop thing. It seems like getting a multiway pot going and letting someone with top pair betting into me has been paying me off more often that not. Maybe I underbet the AA here, but I'm still liking the idea of a multiway pot with maybe 2-3 poeple with a high pair.

[kalooki45]

Nice post Chris.
THis is the type of calculation I'd like to be able to do at the table when in a tough spot.
Is that possible? What sort of math do you need to be able to whiz through this train of thought while under the gun, (so to speak..lol)

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
H'es not going to be reraising all in with top pair here because anyone with a flush with flush draw + overcards are going to have odds against him (and I'm sure most people at my level would call with overcards and a flush draw)

[/ QUOTE ]

You are giving your opponents too much credit. You can't assume that they think rationally. Low buy-in players will make this sort of move with any hand that they don't want callers on, which could be top pair, overpair, two pair, set, made flush. You are ahead of this range of hands.

As far as the pre-flop raise amount, it has been a long discussed and long analyzed aspect of SNG play, and you are getting good advice to raise more here. By raising a larger amount (doesn't have to be a huge overbet), you are getting a similar sized pot with fewer opponents. Take the original example. Do you think a bet of 60-70 would have chased out all the limpers? I don't think so. You will get between 1-3 callers and the pot will be just as big or bigger than it was after raising to 35. The hands that will pay you off the most when you have AA are other high pairs and other high cards. You would rather weed out the 34s and low connector hands, because they generally have to be beating you to put money into the pot post-flop.

[The Yugoslavian]

I don't think anyone is saying your opponent definitely doesn't have a made flush already on the flop -- I think the point is that other hands are probably more likely (and you have the nut flush draw against those) given the huge raise.

As far as pre-flop raising goes, you certainly can build a pot (you have a ton of pot equity) but the better play in NL SNGs (especially in $10+1) is to raise more on level 1. Frankly, isolation isn't necessarily that important but you can expect to get callers or re-raisers at this level at such a low limit and therefore will have either a bigger pot with fewer opponents, or a much bigger pot with the same amount of opponents -- both of these scenarios are better than a decent pot with many opponents.

As far as your post flop play goes here, you should probably bet out more (in later stages you can go for a check raise allin if you are quite sure your opponent will bet at 'scary' flops). I'd be calling allin here as youre opponent has *much* wider range of hands here than you are probably thinking (frankly due to the small pre-flop raise your opponent could have any two and just be playing a pair aggressively -- or overs -- sensing weakness from you).

I would not worry too much about going bust with AA in a $10+1 SNG either pre-flop or post-flop -- far more often you will double up.

[poboy]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm really feeling uneasy about the large raise preflop thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to be rude here ,but get over it. There is no room for fear in poker, a healthy respect sure but fear no. If you are going to play NL SNG's you must be comfortable making big bets. That is the beauty of NL, you are allowed to bet enough to put maximum pressure on your opponents.

[lorinda]

Best case: You have the guy strangled.

Worst case: You still have 6 outs.

Call.

Lori