44 vs. PFR --> flop decision

[jmark]

Implied odds = (money to win later) / (money paying now)

If money paying now goes up, implied odds go down.

[jordanx]

I fold this pre-flop at the table you described.

Simply to keep my variance down.

I wouldn't want to pay 2-3 bets in early position to see the flop w/ small pocket pairs.

[spamuell]

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I fold this pre-flop at the table you described.

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This would be bad.

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Simply to keep my variance down.

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As does transferring your whole bankroll directly to your opponents' accounts. No silly swings then.

Pairs are money on loose aggressive tables, you get ridiculously excessive amounts of action after the flop when you have a set.

[MoreWineII]

Fold. You're likely drawing to two outs, not closing the action (UTG disappeared on the flop [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]).

I know the tempation is to isolate the LAG who hopefully has overcards, but this hand could end up costing you a ton of chips.

[junkmail3]

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Fold. You're likely drawing to two outs, not closing the action..

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This was my thought. Could be beat (rather easily), not closing, any 8 will check raise.

Then I thought, I'll represent the 8, and play it like anyone else would play it. (I would bet it in this situation, but we all agree, a lot would check raise or wait until the turn.)


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I know the tempation is to isolate the LAG who hopefully has overcards, but this hand could end up costing you a ton of chips.

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So I check raised. And, as my plan was, isolate the LAG in the CO.

I think that my plan was to check raise and fold to a reraise (from MP = 8, from CO = any Q, AA, KK)

If CO doesn't reraise me, I consider myself ahead. (If I bet and get raised on the turn, I also consider myself behind)


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(UTG disappeared on the flop [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img])

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I hate when that happens. I usually post my hands at work the next day or so, and dont' have the HH in front of my (no outside email access.)

Turn: 4 ... I didn't need any more plans.
River: x

CO cursed me out for a while and showed KK.

Now this hand worked out really well, obviouslly, but it just didn't sit right with me after it was over (wouldn't have even if I didn't see his KK). It just caused me a lot of question ... protect a potential best hand, isolate and check call, isolate and bet out. It was hard. And I would probably agree now that folding was right on the flop as I could have been (and was) behind and drawing.

I'm glad others at least considered the check raise in their replies. Makes me feel better.

[Alobar]

I dunno what the pre flop debate is about, its an easy call.

The flop is an easy fold. You dont have the odds (even with implied odds) to spike your set, you arn't closing the action so it could easily get raised behind you, you cant protect your hand with a raise because the pot is so big everyone is coming anyway, and not that it matters because you are likely behind. I fold, and I wouldnt even have to think about it before I did it.

[Stork]

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Because PF I still have the same implied odds of hitting my set.

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Your 7.5 to hit your set on the flop, because on the flop you get to see 3 cards. On the turn, you see *one* card. With 2 cards that will help you out of 47, your odds are 45-2 or 22.5-1 against hitting the set on the next card.

[StellarWind]

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UTG checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button folds, Hero ...

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... waits patiently for his turn? What happened to UTG?

Regardless, you can't call because you don't have pot odds to play for a set. Plus the overpair on the board is a nasty problem. Any queen or larger pocket pair has 4 redraw outs after you make your set. Any eight has 7 redraw outs.

The checkraise idea shows thought but your hand is too weak to go after so many people on such a dangerous board.

Easy fold.