30/60 98s hand - Page 3

mmcd · #21 11-10-2004, 02:39 PM

In a game that is playing kike this, I think your 3 opponents will have some combination of pocket pairs between 4 and 9, the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and maybe some other overcard/diamond combination. I've seen hands like 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] win pots like this plenty of times.

Lou Krieger · #22 11-10-2004, 02:52 PM

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Honestly when I bet the river, I wasn't quite sure what to expect, which is what makes this a bad bet probably, but I did know three things when making it.
1) I might have the best hand and am betting for value and might get called by a worse hand.
2) I might just fold out a hand tha can beat me like say, T9 or something.
3) I felt I could easily fold to a checkraise.

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And the opinions recieved in this thread were as varied as the hands involved in that pot could have been. Any of the river possibilities you cited could have been actualities. I think the variety of opinions really reflect the fact that this hand was so dicey that there were a gazillion ways to play it, and the deciding factor has to be your read on your opponents.
_______
Lou Krieger

Paluka · #23 11-10-2004, 02:57 PM

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In a game that is playing kike this, I think your 3 opponents will have some combination of pocket pairs between 4 and 9, the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and maybe some other overcard/diamond combination. I've seen hands like 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] win pots like this plenty of times.

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I play in these same games. Of course this happens. I've also seen this pot won by 2 pair, 9s an 4s. There are a ton of different combination of hands your opponents could have, many of which have you buried. This is why your hand is so hard to play correctly postflop, and also why 89s is such crappy hand in the first place.

mmcd · #24 11-10-2004, 03:28 PM

You're not expecting to see a hand like 94 here. An overpair is unlikley. A set is unlikley and could only reasonably be held by the flop raiser. There's a decent chance a flopped flush wouldhave 3-bet on the turn. The only hands that are a significant threat here are a better 9 and a hand like KJ with the king of diamonds. I think the only spot that was really dicey in this hand was the flop, but given the odds he was getting and the fact that he'd have position w/o the lead on the turn, I think it's definately a cold-call. I think he has the best hand on the turn often enough to mandate a raise, plus there's the possibility that someone with a better 9, but no diamond between him and the turn better might very well fold rather than call 2 cold on threatening board with players left to act behind him.

Paluka · #25 11-10-2004, 04:11 PM

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You're not expecting to see a hand like 94 here. An overpair is unlikley. A set is unlikley and could only reasonably be held by the flop raiser. There's a decent chance a flopped flush wouldhave 3-bet on the turn. The only hands that are a significant threat here are a better 9 and a hand like KJ with the king of diamonds. I think the only spot that was really dicey in this hand was the flop, but given the odds he was getting and the fact that he'd have position w/o the lead on the turn, I think it's definately a cold-call. I think he has the best hand on the turn often enough to mandate a raise, plus there's the possibility that someone with a better 9, but no diamond between him and the turn better might very well fold rather than call 2 cold on threatening board with players left to act behind him.

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I really don't agree with most of this. I would think I was very likely to be losing given the flop and turn action, and if I'm not losing there are a ton of cards that hurt me. I've been in many, many hands over the past few months where it feels like my opponent has 2 pair but the board is trash like J62. I've learned that assuming they didn't play J6 is a mistake, sometimes they do have it. And sometimes they have 62s. All these little probabilites work against you when your hand has so many ways to be beat.
Does anyone think this hand gets posted if someone has flopped a flush? I think if our hero in this hand gets 3 bet on the turn, he says to himself "boy I threw away some chips on that hand" and never tells anyone about it. Our hero overplayed his hand and sucked out.

mmcd · #26 11-10-2004, 06:46 PM

Sure, you can lay the hand down if you feel like you are beat, but if you feel like you're ahead (as the poster obviously did) then I think his line is better than 3-betting the flop. It certainly comes down to his read, but of all te times this type of situation comes up, I think 98 will be ahead a fair amount of the time. I agree that he wouldn't have posted this hand had he got 3-bet on the turn, but he also wouldn't have posted this hand if he folded for 2 bets on the flop and then saw 66 take down a decent sized pot.

How would you play black TT in this situation?

djack · #27 11-10-2004, 07:00 PM

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I play in these same games. Of course this happens. I've also seen this pot won by 2 pair, 9s an 4s. There are a ton of different combination of hands your opponents could have, many of which have you buried. This is why your hand is so hard to play correctly postflop, and also why 89s is such crappy hand in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ] What he said.

J_V · #28 11-11-2004, 02:08 AM

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You also seemed to think raising the turn and betting the river might get better hands to fold, but in fact you actually got called by a worse hand.

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This is a classic example of the Sklansky 2-way bet. And, as I'm sure you know, just because one player called with a worse hand doesn't mean someone else wouldn't fold a better one.