Poker: A question of morality

[Warren Whitmore]

In any occupation there must be a transfer of funds. Lets take the most and least respected (for morality) occupations as examples.

A priest takes money generally from the poor for his own benifit and it could very well be someones rent money. On the other side of the spectrum a thief might break into someones home and steal thier money. I dont see much difference between the two. The difference that I do see is in the form of choice for the victim.

In the first case the person has the choice of giving his money to the priest. In the later the person does not. Poker on that spectrum is closer to the first than the second and therefor to my way of thinking more moral than average.

People like doctors I would place closer to the second extreame as most people have no choice pay or die similar to the thief.

[Mayhap]

[ QUOTE ]
Gambling for a LIVING--nothing immoral, there. BUT it also contributes nothing (in the way of production, or furthering knowledge) to the general welfare of mankind, or society.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kalooki, I've seen this sentiment before. However, if winnings are being pumped regularly back into the economy for goods and services, then I think this idea is incorrect. What think ye?
/M

[toots]

Well, you can make the same argument about tossing a brick through the neighbor's picture window. I mean, it causes him to go out and spend money on a new window, and the glasier has to hire people and buy gasoline, etc.

Except that it's money spent for something that was already there, and money that will not be spent on something more useful.

Poker is more or less similar - the person could "spend" his money on poker or some other form of entertainment. Either way, it's just money being pushed around the economy when in all likelihood, it would have been pushed around the economy in some other way if not for poker.

Compare and contrast with money spent on things that have a potential multiplier effect: R&D, education, tool building, transportation, etc, where the benefits gained down the road are ultimately greater than the present value of the money spent.

When you spend money on something like that, not only are you pushing money around, but you're ending up with the creation of something that either has value of its own, or enables someone to be more productive.

[elysium]

hi earthy

just finished watching 'captain of the clouds' with james cagney; great movie.

religion....immorality, etc.; the forum sure is full of it these past few days. as far as religion goes, there are a lot of charlatans out there muddying up the waters. generally, the more heavily an individual is persecuted for refusing to change what he is articulating about GOD when substantial corroberative evidence is being introduced by GOD that the individual's assertions have merit, the more likely it is that the individual has happened upon the true GOD. the reason for this is that it would be very convenient for charlatans to use the individual politically by somehow blurring the only true evidence that holds up under scientific scrutiny, with their political or monetary aspirations which in turn would suggest to their adherents some type of divine intervention or other should something go wrong with their grand plan. no doubt that would be no small comfort to the uneasiness of mind that would rise up here and there as a given thought up scheme begins unravelling under weight of greed and in-fighting. they could usher in the profit as they see fit, have him snap his fingers, and then quickly scurry him away. if a light or two should flicker in the process, so much the better.

see, GOD understands this. this is why the last son of a bitch on face of the earth that you would want GOD to bless with a never ending purulent stream of miracles and rock hard evidence of DEVINE BEING that convinces even atheists of a HIGHER POWER, is the same individual who is elevated into a state of total nirvana by refusing all attempts to change what he is saying about GOD. he embraces the persecution because he loves the resultant slaughter so sure to soon follow, which itself becomes another miracle feather in his stupid hat. he has so many of these feathers now that he's flying people.

look for the funny feathered hat; the one that makes people angry. there, you will find the profit. no chit.

[kalooki45]

You make a good point! lol
After I wrote it, the same thought occured to me as well--also that the casinos do employ people, so they are providing some economic stimulation to their local economies.
but I think Toots has a point, too.
He wrote a good post on this.

[MoreWineII]

Terrible primary career, good secondary one, imo.

[garyc8]

First of all, I'm not a full time pro, but I make money at poker part-time, and would like to go pro eventually if I can manage it.
I have no real moral/ethical problem with it. The other players at the table are adults. It's their responsibility to refrain from putting money on the table that they can't afford to lose. Maybe this has a lot to do with the fact that I'm older (I'm guessing), and more cynical than you, but I'm far past the point of assuming responsibity for the folly of others.
I don't worry much about what the general public thinks, because the general public is brain dead.
It's true that you wouldn't be making much of a contribution to society, but how many jobs offer you that option. I guess I'm pretty disgusted with the post-industrial economy. As I see it, we're fast becoming a nation of lawyers, accountants, waiters, and bartenders. I don't see much meaning in any of that.
If you can do something that you find satisfying and meaningful, great. If you think you can make an important contribution to the welfare of humanity, go for it. But if not, do what makes you happy.
A popular bumper sticker in the '80s said [ QUOTE ]
Whoever dies with the most toys wins

[/ QUOTE ]. This is incorrect. The trust is: Whoever spends the most time enjoying their life wins. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[CaptObvious]

I think the fascinating thing about life, and our existence as humans is that everything is debatable. It's our rationale that seperates us from many species. We can make conscious decisions and don't always have to just rely on instinct; Such on the topic of morality.

If you ask the Catholic church and such, gambling, drinking, etc these are all such vices. In regards to the aspect of being in the presence of other say 'degenerate' gamblers (for lack of a better term); that just happens to be how it is. You can experience the same thing working for a regular company. You're going to get your sarcastic, mean, unapproachable bossess and employees. Does this mean it's immoral to work for a company because of the surrounding company you're keeping now? What if you found someone in your office is cheating on their spouse?

This is obviously taking things to a little extreme, but, I think you catch my point. I think it's a matter of personal opinion to a point. As long as you're not wacking people, and doing runs for the mob as part of you're gambling or something, I personally don't see anything wrong with it. However, it's another thing trying to tell that to your parents who paid for your schooling.

I think you need to do whats in your heart, man. Why spend your life living other peoples dreams? My opinion would be to do this. If you're truly interested in playing poker as such lay out a plan (if you already haven't), of how much you plan to make. Itemize everything. Finding a full-time job (w/benefits) to supplement everything isn't a bad idea.

Lay everything out on the table is your best bet. They may not necessarily agree with your plan, but, nontheless they're you're parents, and hopefully should "support" you so to speak. Always a tricky situation. Trust me. :-)

Best of luck man.

[Mayhap]

Ya,
I've been struggling with whether or not gambling for a living is a valid spiritual gestalt. Like Toots says, there are more potent productive activities that a person may be engaged in. I'm coming to the conclusion, that in my life, gambling will be a valid ancillary income stream as long as I have some other form of productivity that contributes to the benefit of humanity more directly and more potently than gaming.
/M

[Mayhap]

A life truly enjoyed just has to be a life well lived.
Agreed.
/M