I want the TRUTH

[Lawrence Ng]

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No one complains during the winning runs. Even as many miss bets all over the place during them. But it's the losing runs that are the test of just how good you are.

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Best statement I have read all week Bernie. Note to remind myself to come down and buy you a drink when I head to the Muckleshoot next time.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

I had a 28.5K hands month where i made 665$ (3/6 6 tables). Most hands of any month ive ever played, least money/month ever made since i went pro.

[Lawrence Ng]

Mikey, I feel how you feel right now. I took one of my worst monthly beatings in September - overall down $5000 or so. Bad Beats mostly of course and a string of bad luck with ample cards that simply weren't hitting. I only play live games and not even as a pro, so this dive is pretty substantial.

Let me tell you something, the records I have kept over the past 5 years tell me I am doing something right in the long run. Now if I my streak were to continue on like this for another half a year then I seriously know something is wrong with my game or the poker gods just really decided to say my time is up with poker. But one month is just the negative end of the SD spectrum that's bound to hit.

Losing months like these are very good for me in a way, in a strange way. It allows me to re-focus, re-discover my game and see what it is I'm doing right. After a losing session I go over a lot of hands, key moments, key decisions that affected the way I play. I don't usually do this as much after I win, especially a big winning night because the emotional highs kinda get me carried away.

Sometimes I wish I were like Data on ST:TNG. If I didn't have any emotions I think my EV would go through the roof. Emotions have screwed me over more times than I can remember. This is why I invest heavily in pyschology books, books on zen, books on the human mind and pretty much anything that will help me understand myself and my fellow poker players better so I won't tilt.

Anyways, sounds like you just need a good vent to release some frustration and it's not so bad to do it on these boards.

[Lawrence Ng]

Nepenthe, this is just bs. Any poker player, no matter how good they are will run into a mean streak at some point in their career. You can cheat everyone else into thinking you are immune to such an event, but you can't cheat yourself.

Winning poker is calculated on a long term basis and one month is definitely not long enough to determine the true level a player is at.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

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Winning poker is calculated on a long term basis and one month is definitely not long enough to determine the true level a player is at.

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Not if you do meth and 45 table for 10 hours a day. Or train a team of meth addict monkeys.

I think it requires meth.

[tek]

Whether it's the stock market or poker, there will be winning and losing streaks.

In either arena, we need to minimize the potential damage that down periods can do and alternatively run full speed during up periods.

For example in stocks during bad periods you can stop trading completely for awhile or just scale back in terms of number of trades and volume (of trades in terms of shares and/or dollar). You will also be more patient about your selection criteria (whether it's based on financial data or charts).

In poker, the same thing applies. Take a break. Or scale back the number of sessions per day/week/month...Drop down in limits. Practice better table selection. Practice better starting hand selection. etc.

When the tide is in our favor it seems that we all find ourselves loosening up a bit in all these areas. And that's okay. You have to take the rush for all it is worth.

However, all rushes end. And you won't know it is over until you look in the rearview mirror.

Therefore, we need to plan ahead during the good times and take money off the table, literally.

Get cars and credit cards paid off. Stop using credit cards except for travel expenses for vacations and tournaments. Try and get a savings account (actually two accounts--one for poker and one for general living expenses) for the inevitable bad times so you won't be a pathetic railbird scrounging for seed money. With savings you will not be out of business.

In other words, you have to minimize the distance between the peaks and valleys both in terms of poker and life in general.

That may sound boring, but it is more boring to be tapped out and start all over at the bottom...

[Knockwurst]

Sorry if someone else already used this line -- I haven't read any of the other posts yet.

But you're crying about being UP $287 for the month and that was a bad month? Is this post for real?

Just rest assured that if you keep playing poker you will one day look back on this post as a source of amusement.

Apologies to Murilo, you got there before I did. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[MrBlini]

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Is this how bad it can get or WORESE??!!!??

[/ QUOTE ]I had a streak after I could already prove with 99.93% certainty that I was a winning player in which I lost 284 BB. The streak lasted around a month. Now that is a bad month. Your month is mediocre at worst.

During this expensive plunge in my bankroll, the stock response from my poker-playing friends was "don't worry, you haven't hit 300 BB yet." [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] (They'd also helpfully mention the 1-in-3000 probability that I was actually a losing player.)

[bernie]

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That's just the point. I have spread my risk out so much. I consider multitabling as an investor considers diversifying his portfolio. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. I don't rely on one individual session; this is the reason why I multitable. I spread all that risk around.

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Could this also cause you to be spreading yourself too thin? By playing say, 3-4 tables instead of 7, you might be able to make more as you will be keeping track of fewer variables. There has to be a break even point in multitabling where your profit margin levels off or even declines.

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The reason for this post is also because all we hear about all the time or at least what I hear about all the time is the GLAMOUR, but in honesty as I keep playing this game, No one admits they ever play badly or run badly. I want to know the truth behind it. There is that truth out there, I know it is. I want to hear from the rest of the community how they deal with it.


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Glamour? When you're able to tell people how much hard work it is, glamour will be the furthest word from the vocabulary. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] A couple posters have posted bad runs. GoT i believe posted something like his results per session or month that showed some interesting swings. I think Diablo may have done it also. However, the only real way to get the full grasp of it is to go through it yourself.

One way i think of it is when i have a great session, as friggin rare as that is these days, i look at how much i made an hour for the session. Let's say it's 12bb an hour. (nice wet dream of mine [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) Eventually, you will go on a bad run where you will lose at least 10+bb hour bringing you back down to the normal rate.(talking live game here, not online. So the rates may differ, but you get the idea i'm aiming at) You may not blow that money back all in one session, it could take awhile. Which goes both ways. Remember this when you see a donator(usually directly on my right [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]) on a huge ass run. He will give it back eventually.

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It makes me tougher emotionally and mentally when I have to figure out ways to deal with the downswings rather than bitch and moan like I am now

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I've found it very theraputic to post bad runs on here. Sometimes you just have to get it out. It does build up inside and twists you inside out at times. It can feel like you're the only one going through them and that everyone else is winning but you. But as you mentioned above, eventually you do get used to them. One way is to learn how to take the results, even pot-wise, out of the equation. Easier said than done. But if you're satisfied with how you played whether a hand or session, it won't matter if you actually won or lost that hand/session.

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Maybe I should just take it for what it is. "Something I'll never be able to control."

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You can't control a swing happening, but you can minimize it's affect by making sure you're playing well. You can recognize what is happening. A guy came up to me while i was in a game the other day and asked how i was doing. I told him i was on a horrendous run. He said i should take a break. Which is good advice. But i told him i was playing well, for the most part, and that you have to play through the swings sometime. You can't run and hide from them. Switching tables/casinos won't change it. (I just had that conversation with my brother about hiding from swings) Though a change of scenery can help psychologically in many cases. Remember the 'bad' seat you just changed from could go on a run at any time. I got my ass kicked on one table a while back and finally busted out. Flapjack, another 2+2er, took my seat and quickly went on a nice run.

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Maybe I think I play very well, but in fact I don't!!!


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One way to test is ask yourself why you're doing any play on the table you're doing. Make sure you are considering all the factors in the equation that you can. If you can answer it soundly/honestly you're likely on the right track. Even if you're just playing a hand for the hell of it. (not making a habit of doing this) Say you're playing JTo by raising in EP. You know you're giving up quite a bit doing this, but you got a wild hair on this one hand. It's not even an image play as you already are getting lots of action. You just want to have fun, maybe blow some steam on this one hand. The above example isn't a routine play by any means. But knowing what you're giving up and why you're doing it plus all the ramifications/benefits of it is something many don't really think about.

Some say the above is wasting money. True. But many players will take a break from the table and blow more on a hand of craps or BJ in the casino than they will likely blow during this one hand. But the above is just about knowing the pros and cons of a play before doing it in regards to all the plays you make. Which the above, the cons greatly outweigh the pros, but i have done it from time to time.

It's ok to play a hand for fun, if that's the reason you may play a hand loosely. The problem is when you play the last 4 for fun.

Lastly, as i want to be done rambling, if it really is getting to you, which it sounds like it may be doing. Take a break for a day or 2. Even in the middle of a bad run, you will come back to it fresher and the losses won't pile up like baggage.

b

ps... In SSH there is a section in the front, gambling concepts or something like that, that Ed talks about staying with it even if things are going bad. (This assumes you're still playing well) He explains it very well in there, imo. To me, it's one of the most important chapters/sections in the book. Probably will be the least reread chapter of anyone buying the book. It may give you some ideas.

[NLSoldier]

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Between 30 and 40K.

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My winrate over my last 30k hands is .26bb/100 hands(down from around 2.6)....sh!t happens