QQ - flopped a Q

[Matty]

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (20.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Turn: (17.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP3 calls.

River: (23.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP3 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 25.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 25.75 BB, between MP3 and Hero.</font>

So what do you all think about that Turn raise?

[k000k]

I think the raise is ok, and I feel releived when I don't get re-raised.. I'd get scared if I got pushed any harder than that.. You have one of the flush cards, so that reduces the odds of a made flush. I bet you're up against AK or AQ.. AA or KK would probably 3bet you, and a flush would DEFINATELY reraise you... Well, should anyway, maybe not would...

I'd play it the same.. You MUST play sets hard like this. I think you won, especially since you got called down on the riv, but even if you DID lose it this time, good play, nice hand!

[tardigrade]

I think there's a decent chance of AA or KK being out there. Capping the flop seems mandatory to me with everyone so committed to the pot after the pre-flop action. I like the raise on the turn representing the flush. There is no reraise, but two callers, which I think is informative ... they seem to fear the flush, but their hands are too nice to lay down. I'd check-call the river at that point and cross my fingers. I think you didn't get raised because he fears the flush, but I'm really suspecting AA or KK at this point and don't want to put more money in the pot. Do you think that's too weak?

[secada]

I think raising the turn is a must. No way I put MP3 on a flush, what did he 3-bet PF with? With the Ace /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif out you're just worried about AA &amp; KK.

I guess you'd have to slow down if he raised you on the turn...but I wouldn't even like that because much more often than AA or KK he's going to have AK. If you lost to J10 (not diamonds) then I hope you put MP3 on your buddy list.

-secada

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you all think about that Turn raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

to re-iterate what everyone else says, it's a good raise. besides the set (with your 10 outs to a boat, or 1 out to quads if you're up agains AA or KK), you have the diamond outs to the nut flush.

The river bet is iffy -- you won't get AA or KK to fold (unless they're extremely weak / don't read the NPA's posts /images/graemlins/smile.gif), and I don't know how many times you run into AK or AQ here instead of the flush...

[TheRake]

This looks to me like the type of hand that NPAEM prefers not to cap on the flop. There are so many draws on this board and no one (with a decent draw or hand) is laying this down to your cap on the flop. The pot has gotten quite large and you should be thinking about how to win it. You should be looking to try and make people face 2BB cold in order to increase your chances of winning.

Maybe Ed wants to chime in on this one. PLEASE /images/graemlins/grin.gif

TheRake

[TheRake]

Grey,
So I was thinking about this hand on the way home from work. I really dislike the cap on the flop. You are never going to fold any straight or flush draws and you may well be drawing nearly dead to AA. The line should look more like

call the 3 bet on the flop
Raise the turn (since you also picked up the nut flush draw)
check behind on the river (certainly I would not fault you for value betting here. It is unlikely you will be raised by anything except a flush)

Comments anybody?

TheRake

[SnakeRat]

[ QUOTE ]
This looks to me like the type of hand that NPAEM prefers not to cap on the flop. There are so many draws on this board and no one (with a decent draw or hand) is laying this down to your cap on the flop. The pot has gotten quite large and you should be thinking about how to win it. You should be looking to try and make people face 2BB cold in order to increase your chances of winning.


TheRake

[/ QUOTE ]

No draw is going to fold on the turn, whether you cap the flop or not.
You cant really increase your chances of taking this one down, no matter how you play it.

Just make the pot as big as possible since you will drag this more often than not.

I think he played it well.

[TheRake]

[ QUOTE ]
No draw is going to fold on the turn, whether you cap the flop or not. You cant really increase your chances of taking this one down, no matter how you play it. Just make the pot as big as possible since you will drag this more often than not.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want the turn to be checked to you. You are a bigger favorite if/when a blank falls on the turn. by making them call 2BB (on the turn) instead of 2SB (on the flop) you charge them more to draw out on you. plus there is a small chance you can make them fold. Raising the turn is definately better in this case.

TheRake

[Blindfolk]

I think he has AQ, no diamond.

[SnakeRat]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the turn is definately better in this case.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think its better to raise both the flop and the turn...

[dave44]

I see the flop cap as a way to put more BB's into a pot you are the odds on favorite to win, not to force draws to fold.

[TheRake]

[ QUOTE ]
I see the flop cap as a way to put more BB's into a pot you are the odds on favorite to win, not to force draws to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is already big enough. You should be trying to figure out the best way to win it. Capping the flop is not it.

TheRake

[Ed Miller]

This looks to me like the type of hand that NPAEM prefers not to cap on the flop. There are so many draws on this board and no one (with a decent draw or hand) is laying this down to your cap on the flop. The pot has gotten quite large and you should be thinking about how to win it. You should be looking to try and make people face 2BB cold in order to increase your chances of winning.

Well, I would have capped the flop. There are four players left when you have the capping option, and the player driving the betting is directly across from you (i.e., there is a player between you and him on either side).

You have a SET. Sets play very differently than single pairs because they win MUCH more often. Your pot equity edge is much larger on the flop than it would be with one pair (having the Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif makes your hand even stronger), and you are not as vulnerable to draw-outs because you can fill up.

So, if all goes according to plan, you can face only ONE player with two cold on the turn. If things don't go according to plan (e.g., if a scare card comes) then you may not even be bet into on the turn. I think you are better off taking the immediate profit, capping the flop, and hoping for the best.

[Ed Miller]

You played the hand pefectly. Not raising the turn would have been an error.

[Matty]

For reference, he showed down AA.

Thanks for all the responses.

[SnakeBob]

Might as well raise on turn...he knows you have SOMETHING when you cap both flop and preflop...I would say raise...if he beats you with pocket aces good for him...to many maniacs out there to give him credit for that. So raise and hope he re-raises you.