this hand got my chat revoked

[pokerraja]

Yesterday was a disaster. Nothing was going my way. I was getting rivered at an amazing pace. After a great 2 week run of cards, i basically give it all back yesterday. this hand is the icing on the cake. This is my 3rd buy-in to the same table of NL200 (6-handed) at Party. I lost my first buy-in to a higher set, and the second buy-in to a higher flush. So, I was running bad!

Now to this hand. Im in BB ($379) with 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG ($90) calls $4, button ($550) raises to $10, SB folds, I call, and UTG calls. The button is very aggresive and very lucky, he came to table with $80 and now hes sitting at $550, he won two big hands on the river.

Flop comes out (2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif). I flop a ten high flush. Since I have a medium flush, I come out betting. I make a pot size bet of $30. Both smooth call. I'm thinking huh?, they got to be drawing to higher flush? I was actually going to be happy to take it down there. I dont feel to good about my ten high flush, considering an hour ago my Q high flush loses to K high with A on board. The turn brings Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. So four diamonds on board. NOw I'm really scared. I have no idea what to do now. For some stupid reason, I come out betting $100. Im not sure what I should of did here. So, UTG calls for his remaining chips, now hes all in, but now the button (PF raiser) goes all-in with his remaining $500. I quickly fold. the river was a rag. Now the showdown. The button wins the hand with his black A /images/graemlins/spade.gifA /images/graemlins/club.gif!!!! the UTG guy had A /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I could not believe what just took place. The pot had close to $300, and I just folded the winner.

I have to be honest here, I went into a rage, I couldnt belive the maniac button was such an idiot, or maybe it was me? I was already on tilt, this just put me over the edge. I went on to get my chat banned for 10 days. Im still burning from this play. I cant believe this guy was willing to bluff so hard, damn i wish i was all-in after the flop.

anyways please help me out here, and input appreciated.

[NotAClue]

For what it's worth, once the 4th diamond hits the turn and you're raised, I would also lay down the T high flush. I would probably bet at least double the pot on the flop. That way once the 4th diamond hits the turn and I'm raised I can lay the hand down for good; admitedly it doesn't help this particular case, but it'll help all those other cases where you _are_ against a higher flush (which is going to be most of the time).

As far as the chat priviledges go, be content with thinking the hell out of all those verbal jabs.

[pokerraja]

Now that I'm thinking about it more. If he had the nut flush there is no way he bets all-in on the turn? am i correct? wouldnt he most likely call or just re-raise me another $100? by his all-in bet he is almost asking me to fold. I guess I could put him on J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif flush. Preflop Hes the kind of guy who would raise any two face cards.

I guess thats why the call it poker. But yesterday was very bad. I think I need some time off, im just to frustrated right now.

[pokerraja]

any input here? help a bro out

[Daann]

Not much you could have done, apart from possibly check raising instead of betting out if you knew that the button would still bet with a monotone flop. This would have, in most cases, knocked out UTG though this seems unlikely when considering that he called a pot bet with overcards.

After two cold calls on the flop and the subsequent action on the turn, I would have folded.

[bingledork]

What kind of replies are you looking for?

Here's mine:

The hand didn't cost you your chat privileges, your tirade did. Stop doing that.

I probably would have folded too.

[Jason Strasser]

Hey.

This is a tough hand. Agreeing with the previous poster, I overbet the pot on the flop. You can not feel uncomfortable with your hand now. You must be willing to play this hand as if you are ahead of everyone, not fearful of a higher flush on the flop. If you are fearful, then you must fold preflop. You caught a near perfect flop for your hand, you must play it, otherwise why get involved PF?

On the turn, you fold to the reraise. He COULD have the Ace of diamonds, and wants you to fold your set or whatever. You are behind most of the time here. Give your opponent credit for a ballsy move (maybe stupid, maybe not) and move on. The fact that you went off in chat tells me:

1) You are playing too high a limit. You have to be able to lose your money at a table and have a clear head. Otherwise you are playing for too much money.

2) Poker is becoming something that it shouldn't be, a reason to get mad. Sure it can be frustrating, but there is no reason for you to take it to this level.

Good luck

[MS Sunshine]

"I was actually going to be happy to take it down there. I dont feel to good about my ten high flush, considering an hour ago my Q high flush loses to K high with A on board. The turn brings Q . So four diamonds on board. NOw I'm really scared. I have no idea what to do now."

First, what happened an hour ago, doesn't matter, except to muck up your thought process for this hand.

Second, step back from the hand. What did your bet and their calls mean on the flop? Other than BOTH of them flopping 2p or a set, one or BOTH have a flush now. The chance of the preflop raiser having a flush and yours is better is slim. As a matter of fact, it is a slim chance that if the other player has a flush you have the winning hand. You have bad position with an almost certainly dominated hand and a good amount of money left. You're screwed.

"NOw I'm really scared."

Don't forget, you must be a little angry and frustrated too. Your emotions made the turn betting decision. You have tilt issues that need to be addressed.

You should have checked and folded to almost any bet.

MS Sunshine

[pokerraja]

thanks alot guys. this is the kind of responses i was looking for. as to the guy who said i was playing too high of a limit. i think you are correct. i play NL100, thats my game. due to my tilt frame of mind i went up in limits. i lost over $1200 yesterday. all on bad beats. it took me over 2 weeks of grinding to make that money. its time for me to reassess the situation. i was not prepared to handle variance. im still hurting from the beats. where do i go from here? maybe take some time off and go back to my NL100 and $50 sng's?

[Jason Strasser]

Take your poker bankroll, divide it by 20. If this is above 50, then play the 50 dollar sngs. If this 30, play them. If this is less, play the 10 or 20 dollars. In terms of ring games, divide by 10. Thats my very unprofessional system of finding the right limit.

[sniperd]

I like your ideas for bankroll. I don't want to be risking more then 5% of my bankroll, by which, I don't want to buy in for more than that.

As for this players play, I would have probably check folded the turn (perhaps call a small bet), or bet out and fold to a raise. Either way, the fold on the turn is sound.

[stillachargerfan]

I love to check raise on the flop when I hit a small-med flush. You know from the type of players and action before the flop, that someone will move on the pot. I almost always ck raise then go all in. The majority of the people with a higher /images/graemlins/diamond.gif will give up a small investment in the pot. The rest of the time you still have your made hand. Why allow them to beat you for a cheap call?

[pokerraja]

looking back. i think the check-raise is the perfect play for these opponents. i just absolutley do not want to give a free card. wow. this hand still have me boiling,lol.

[Yardbird]

Recharge and call that mofo down with the goods and you'll get your money back plus a helluva lot more... No use steaming about that single hand when you just gained such critical information about his style: now you can treat him appropriately, and capitalize on his loose antics.

[Paul2432]

Am I the only one that would consider folding before the flop? Don't play draws out of position. Especially if your opponents will outplay you after the flop.


Paul

[ddubois]

I'm a limit player, so all this no-limit stuff is like Greek to me, but... I thought one signifigant aspect of no-limits was the abiltiy to bet such an amount as to make it wrong for certain draws to call. So if someone has AhKc, you can bet enough that they need to fold their singleton ace? Since they will catch their 4th heart 1 in 2.8 times (actually less, as you have two of them), don't you want to bet something like 4x the pot, or more? What am I misunderstanding?

[DcifrThs]

wow.

you've apparantly gotten a lot of responses from people here. i'll just give a quick assessment of each part.

1) poker hands are independant events and must be treated as such. you were not because previous hands were affecting your play in a negative manner in the present hand and any hand played at this point in time. IF you do choose to play on, why not tighten up? drop those draws before they cause problems...ESPECIALLY out of position for a raise.

2) you said the button is very aggressive and "lucky." aka loose. he raises and you call with a drawing hand that is now likely to have to PAY too much to hit whatever draw it flops and you cannot be totally happy w/ top pair. you're looking for 2pair or better OESD or flush draw which is still vulnerable...again thats a preflop fold.

3) on the flop you hit a DREAM with two players one loose aggressive. pot sized bet is nowhere near enough. make it at least $45 to go. 1.5:1 they'll be tempted if they've got a diamond and may play back with a higher pair to prevent you from "drawing" if you are semibluffing. THEN you can come BACK OVER them and move them in.

4) turn. nice laydown...but i don't think a bet is necessary...check and fold, what else are they calling with? (ps- this is ignoring the information atained after the hand was over)

5) calm down and move down in limits. it doesn't matter how good you are at this point but these 200nl games are way way way to big for you if your emotional reactions are thusly displayed. this is poker, it happens all the time. you've gone through a little cycle in under a month and look how you've handled it emotionally...people, GOOD AND GREAT PLAYERS TOO, can hit spots where they consistently lose while playing their best for OVER A YEAR and still be confidently at their win rate. you're little 3 week adventure pales in comparison to that possibilty. you must learn to understand your feelings and deal with your emotional outbursts.

hope this helps you on your way, take care.
-Barron

[DOMIT]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that would consider folding before the flop? Don't play draws out of position. Especially if your opponents will outplay you after the flop.
Paul

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm wondering if I'm the only one that would consider that perhaps he shouldn't have bought in a third time at that table, with those players? Sure, you want loose people, but if they're aggressive too, and you just lost your stack twice (even if just unlucky), perhaps it's time to either find a different table or even sit out?

[Daann]

Problem is that the only hand that will probably call that 4x pot bet is another flush.