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PokerBob

05-05-2004, 09:00 AM

Last night I had AA and KK back to back at the same table. Anything I should have done differently?

I have a read on a few players at the table, but not on my particular opponents in this case.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players) 
Hero bets, MP2 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players) 
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises (wtf??? set?? should I bail here?), UTG+2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB
Main Pot: 11.75 BB, between Hero and MP2. > Pot won by MP2 (11.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows As Ac (one pair, aces).
MP2 shows 7d 6s (two pair, sevens and sixes).
Outcome: MP2 wins 11.75 BB. 

MP2 in the previous hand is MP1 in this hand and shall be referred to from her on out as Man Who Hates Money (MWHM).
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, MWHM calls, MP2 folds, MP3 3-bets, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero caps, MP1 calls (4! ), MP3 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players) 
Hero bets, MWHM folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, MP3 raises (wtf??? no way he has a 7, right?? fold???), Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB
Main Pot: 12.75 BB, between Hero and MP3. > Pot won by MP3 (12.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ks Kh (full house, sevens full of kings).
MP3 shows Ad As (full house, sevens full of aces).
Outcome: MP3 wins 12.75 BB. 

Just curious: If I get KK 100 times, how many of those times will I run into AA? Anyone know the odds on this?

PokerBob

05-05-2004, 10:35 AM

Rico Suave

05-05-2004, 10:38 AM

Hey Pokerbob:

I wouldn't fold in either of these hands.

--Rico

Bob T.

05-05-2004, 10:40 AM

You did fine on both hands.

If you hold KK, AA will appear in one hand, 6 times out of 1225, or once every 204 hands. So in a ten handed game, your opponents will hold it once every 22.66 hands. You should do the math to check mine, because it is a good excersize for holdem players.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

Bob T.

05-05-2004, 10:41 AM

Its limit poker, don't fold big PPs, just slow down and call.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

Haupt_234

05-05-2004, 10:43 AM

They are both obviously tough beats.

In hand one, I probably would have 3-bet the turn as the opponent could have been betting his KQ or AQ on the larger street. If anymore strength is shown (a re-raise), it would either be a tough lay down or a check-call down.

As for hand two, I would have 3-bet the river as the only card beating you here is the other 7 which is unlikely or AA. It sucks that you ran into AA but I believe that not 3-betting in the long run in these situations will lose you bets.

Haupt_234

Eihli

05-05-2004, 11:10 AM

I would have 3bet the river on the 2nd hand.

asdf1234

05-05-2004, 02:30 PM

It's rarely going to be correct to fold a big pocket pair heads up on party 2/4.

Dylan Wade

05-05-2004, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (5.75 BB) 7 (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises (wtf??? set?? should I bail here?), UTG+2 folds, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really think this, I'd bail on poker. Cash out your Poker bankroll and buy something nice with it before it's all gone.

No, seriously, folding here is terrible.

PokerBob

05-05-2004, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (5.75 BB) 7 (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises (wtf??? set?? should I bail here?), UTG+2 folds, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really think this, I'd bail on poker. Cash out your Poker bankroll and buy something nice with it before it's all gone.

No, seriously, folding here is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience, a turn raise usually means that I am behind. Especially since I raise it up PF. Is it not correct to interpret it this way?

SpaceAce

05-05-2004, 03:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You did fine on both hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think the hero should have three-bet the river with his KK.

SpaceAce

joker122

05-05-2004, 03:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, a turn raise usually means that I am behind. Especially since I raise it up PF. Is it not correct to interpret it this way?

[/ QUOTE ]

You probably are behind, but it's not like you don't have outs. If it's 2 pair (and most of the time, it is) you have 8 outs. Also, he might just be very confident that his queen is good. Don't fold.

pudley4

05-05-2004, 04:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (5.75 BB) 7 (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises (wtf??? set?? should I bail here?), UTG+2 folds, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really think this, I'd bail on poker. Cash out your Poker bankroll and buy something nice with it before it's all gone.

No, seriously, folding here is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience, a turn raise usually means that I am behind. Especially since I raise it up PF. Is it not correct to interpret it this way?

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually you are behind. However, the chances that you are ahead (your opp has a Q and puts you on AK) plus the chances of drawing out him (especially when he has 2 pair) plus the size of the pot (9 BB by the time it gets back to you) means folding the turn here is bad.

pudley4

05-05-2004, 04:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
joker: You probably are behind, but it's not like you don't have outs. If it's 2 pair (and most of the time, it is) you have 8 outs. Also, he might just be very confident that his queen is good. Don't fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

or I could have read joker's post first, quoted it, and said "ditto" /images/graemlins/grin.gif