99 UTG.

[Bob T.]

Online 3-6 game. Moderately loose, but there has been a recent turnover in players.

I open raise with 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG, EP, button, and both blinds call.

flop 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

I bet, EP, Button, and the BB call.

Turn, Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Ding! I bet, EP calls, button and the BB fold.

River, 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif I check, EP bets, I checkraise, EP thinks for a while, and reraises, and I cap it.

Everyone, can probably come close to guessing his hand, do you like my play on the river, or should I usually bet out here?

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[BaronVonCP]

I like betting and 3 betting better. Its not gauranteed that he's made a hand by the river.

Keep in mind that I probably don't checkraise the river enough.

[mmanne]

I think the CR worked out great, but I would have been scared that the 4th spade would scare a small flush into checking behind. How did you come to a decision to CR the river, rather than betting out? Was it to induce a bluff in case he didn't have the flush, but you wouldn't really be losing if he did have the flush?

matt

[Bob T.]

My thinking was, any spade might bet if I check, and any hand without a spade might try and steal the pot from me.

The spades will probably call a checkraise, and the spadeless hands, might not even call my first bet.

I would still be feeling pretty silly, if my opponent checked it through though.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[mmanne]

Here are the basic situations I see, and why one or the other approach is better, in my opinion:

Small flush (2 spades): Betting is better, a small flush might check the river
Large Flush (2spades) : If opponent has the nut flush, either is good, however I think betting is better if it's a non-nut. More people will raise and call with K high flush than will 3-bet with it
No flush : Checking better

That's why I'd advocate for betting out.
matt

[sthief09]

he has A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif? not likely but it's just a guess

I like check-raising the turn better than check-raising the river. but either way, I don't like check-raising the river. the reason for this is that you've bet the whole way. that means he isn't likely to put you on a boat. since he isn't putting you on a boat, he will likely raise a high /images/graemlins/spade.gif, maybe even the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif... if you check, he might check through with something like trip queens that he otherwise would've called with.

[Bob T.]

How did you come to a decision to CR the river, rather than betting out? Was it to induce a bluff in case he didn't have the flush, but you wouldn't really be losing if he did have the flush?


Well, there were always players to act behind him, and he coldcalled, and then just kept calling after the flop. I thought that if he had any kind of made hand, he would raise, and try and eliminate/charge any draws for sticking around, and if he was drawing, he probably had to have at least one spade, or the board would have been too scary for him to chase. It happens all the time, that the fourth suited card wrecks your hand, (they don't know that I am a member of the 'Clarkmeister bet the fourth suited card congregation') so I thought that this would be a good time to pretend that card had counterfeited my hand.

I also thought that he might take a stab at the pot if he didn't have a spade, just because I might fold if I really believed that the card counterfeited me.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[blackaces13]

Bet it and hope for a raise.

[wildb]

I would play this hand quite different...
I would not raise pre-flop letting more people in.
If I flop a set I would try for a check raise to thin the field.
If I miss the set and the flop had overcards and some action I would fold.

With a raise you are working to limit the field pre-floop with the hope that 99 will hold up with no improvement.
However if you get three callers the 99's most likly will need to improve. With the raise when you don't hit the flop you may be more inclined to play on..

Just my ideas...

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
If I flop a set I would try for a check raise to thin the field.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you want to thin the field with a set? A 4-flush will call you anyway and the other hands probably have virtually no chance of catching up to you.

[asdf1234]

Beat me to it! Good point. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you like my play on the river, or should I usually bet out here?

[/ QUOTE ]

For EP to cold call 2 preflop, he's gotta have a decent hand that IMO contains big cards, but not too big otherwise he woulda 3-bet (56s seems foolish to call with in this spot, but AJs KQs, or JTs might make sense, but maybe I'm giving him too much credit). Since he's been nothing but a calling station the whole way, I think he's gotta be on flush draw, but then why didn't he pop you back on the turn when the flush got there? Bingo!!! He must have the NUT flush and wants to bump you back when a blank falls on the river.

I LOVE the play.

That said, I think I woulda bet as my hand reading prowess goes down exponentially when I fill up on the turn. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[tripdad]

i like betting out as well. it seems to me there isn't a whole lot else he's calling the turn bet with than a high flush possibility. short handed, any Q will raise it up every time, 9 is unlikely, and 2 is stupid (although that is an apt description of many short handed losers i've come across).

cheers!

[Bob T.]

Why would you want to thin the field with a set? A 4-flush will call you anyway and the other hands probably have virtually no chance of catching up to you.

Additionally, with a set, not only do you usually have the best hand, you also have the best draw.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[wildb]

Your trips are not safe enough to slow play.
A four flush and four cards to a straight could be out..
You need to make these hands pay to draw out on you.

[tripdad]

what site are you playing on? i can't seem to ever find a short 3/6 game on party.

cheers!

[asdf1234]

You're not slowplaying. You don't want people that are drawing really really thin to fold because you hit them with two on the flop. You'd rather string them along one at a time. Bob didn't slowplay at all in this hand.

Edit: Also, hitting people with 2 only gets the hands you don't want to fold to fold. 4 flushes and open ended straight draws are coming anyway and are right to do so in most cases.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]

I would still be feeling pretty silly, if my opponent checked it through though.



[/ QUOTE ]

Paraphrase from TOP, "Heads up on the end" : You dont have to feel silly - if check-raising has higher longterm EV than betting out, then it doesnt matter if it gets checked through sometimes.

Of course I'm sure you already know this. But I thought i'd point it out because we do usually feel silly when our very strong hands gets checked through on the river.

[Bob T.]

This was on party, but I didn't say it was shorthanded, only that the players had recently turned over. But we did play shorthanded at this table for a little while. The first hand I got involved in, I ran into Quads, and then the next hand the nut flush. Fortuneately, some good things happened to me, too.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Yeknom58]

Why not CR the turn?

On the river I think I like the river CR heads up.

As for what he has I'm guessing As2x and he was wondering if you had a FH or he has the dreaded party Q7s and was doing a little showtime with his 3bet on the river.

[Bob T.]

I thought that I would go for the three bet on the turn. At that point, I still had four opponents, and I didn't know which if any might be on a spade draw.

He had the Ace of Spades with an offsuit Jack. Two overcards on the flop, with the backdoor flush draw, and then the flush draw on the turn.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[blackaces13]

Wildb,

Sounds like you've just read WLLHE, its a good book but its also written to somewhat protect beginners. Also, betting out is not slowplaying a set, check calling is. Don't check raise sets, its not vulnerable enough to warrant such a tactic.

You want to get the most money into the pot with the MOST opponents here. The reason not to slowplay is not to "thin the field" it is to not miss opportunities to get $$ into the pot with an extremely powerful hand, and a great draw as well to the boat.

If the flush hits and someone had a draw to it and the board doesn't pair there is nothing you can do to win the hand. The flush draw isn't going anywhere, you don't want to shut out the rest of the field and prevent them from paying you on the more expensive streets.

[Bob T.]

At least one person liked my play /images/graemlins/grin.gif. Thanks.

[WarmonkEd]

I probably would've limped PF. But the rest of the hand seems good.

[Mike Gallo]

Everyone, can probably come close to guessing his hand, do you like my play on the river, or should I usually bet out here?

No matter how the river went down you would have gottren the chance to cap or call a capped pot.

Ni han sir /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TonyG86]

Dont think i wouldve played it any other way. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BaronVonCP]

I never said I didn't like your play!

[wildb]

Thanks for the input.. Yes I have read many books...
lol.. Any only have about 200 hours of playing time.
So you are corrent and you may have a point.. I will need to think about it..
I just hate the suck out and want to punish the draws
with a raise.. it may be costing me +EV