8-16 hand

Ok, it's actually 4-8 kill, but the kill is on.


My primary concern in this hand is to neither get outplayed nor to pay off if beat. I'm significantly tighter in 8-16 because of the change in limit but AA is too good to throw away, you see.


I have AA and I'm first in. I raise it. The player to my left and the cutoff (killer) calls. Everyone else folds.


The flop is Tc9c3d. I bet. It is bet and 3-bet behind me. I call and the first raiser calls.


I dark bet the turn. The turn is an offsuit J. I am called in both spots.


I dark checked the river. The river is a total blank. The first raiser checks out when he sees it and the second raiser checks.


I would have checked and folded if another club had come on the river. I would have folded if someone had raised the turn.


What do you guys think? I'll put up results this morning.

Well done I think. One guy probably has a ten, the other a flush draw.

I think you left some money on the table. I would have capped the flop, and slowed down if raised on the turn. I think you have to bet the river. The flush draw will fold, but any pair will probably call. If raised I think you could fold.

River: If it was just a single bet to me, I would call it most of the time, unless I am very confident of my read on the bettor. At this point there is 10.5 BB in the pot. If I were one of your opponents and I was not on clubs, I know I would be very tempted to take a shot at the pot if the flush card came.


Turn: This is more problematic for me. Again, depending on player, a turn raise might be a definite indication you are beat or not. He could be raising with say 10 J (2 pair) in which case you have 8 outs (although some of those may be counterfeited by being clubs). 8 outs gives you better than 5:1. So this would be a player dependent call. I would estimate I would fold to a raise here about 50% of the time.


P.S. What is the purpose of betting in the dark, (as opposed to waiting to see the card first)?

last week at the Elbow.

The purpose of betting in the dark is to neither get outplayed nor to pay off if beat because the stakes aren't entirely comfortable.


It's wrong to bet the turn, I think, if an offsuit Ace comes in which case I should probably checkraise if I were interested in playing optimally.


If an onsuit Ace comes I should probably have check-called (?)


But I wasn't all that interested in playing optimally.

It appears to me that you are playing at stakes above your comfort level and scared to commit yourself. If that's the case, step down to a lower limit or be dealt out if it's a kill pot.


If you are not interested in playing optimally, what is your goal?


I'm sorry if I sound quite harsh but your play and reasoning on your post do not make sense.

No, you can play at a level above your bankroll temporarily so long as you're willing to play tighter.

The way you play the hand is not tighter but tight-passive which is not winning poker.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but you don't know what you're talking about.


If I get 3-bet on the flop and bet the turn in the dark, this is passive? It's a defensive style, and I hope that's what you meant.

Weak in the sense that I would have capped the flop and betting out in the turn. Betting the turn in the dark as a defensive play, do you expect them to fold? Then checking the river in the dark what were you trying to accomplish? You should have been in the attack mode on the flop rather than be on the defensive, IMO. Like to know the results.