was it ok to play it this way

[Noodles]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) Table not particularly aggressive,no read on this guy though!converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Noodles is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Noodles raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Noodles caps</font>, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Noodles bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Noodles 3-bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Noodles bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, Noodles calls.

River: (13.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Noodles checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Noodles calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 15.75 BB, between Button and Noodles.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Noodles (15.75 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Noodles shows Ah Ac (two pair, aces and queens).
Button shows 2d Kd (two pair, queens and twos).
Outcome: Noodles wins 15.75 BB. </font>

[WalnutFlush]

I think you played it well. Only thing is perhaps you should've raised the turn. Perhaps he's just betting a flush draw for value, and you should make him pay. If he's got a Q or boat that sucks, but you've got to find out where you stand on the turn. With that information you can move on to the river with a better knowledge of where you stand.

[AviD]

Wow, put a crosshair on Button's forehead...add that great man to your buddy list! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think you played it fine, assuming you are assuming Button actually has a clue. Apparently we both assumed wrong.

[AviD]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps he's just betting a flush draw for value, and you should make him pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has two diamonds and there isn't a diamond on the board. He'd be drawing until the end of time and still not hit his flush.

Raise him for being lost in dementia, not for chasing a flush draw!

[Brian]

Hi Noodles,

I do not see any other way to play it without any specific reads.

-Brian

[WalnutFlush]

there are two hearts out on the board from the flop and we've only got one, albeit it is the nut. with three hearts out there on the river and us only having one, there is a very real chance of a flush.

[AviD]

I was replying to the results in which...

Button shows 2d Kd (two pair, queens and twos).

[WalnutFlush]

Right, didn't catch that the first time.

However, we don't know that during the game he's got no cards to a flush, and thus we have to play assuming a possible flush is out there while there are two suited cards.

[AviD]

Yes, my fault, we replied from two different perspectives! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Noodles]

"Perhaps he's just betting a flush draw for value, and you should make him pay."
I really dont get this reasoning,a lot of people seem to bandy that phase about "betting a flush draw for value" Can you explain what it means in math terms in this context?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps he's just betting a flush draw for value

[/ QUOTE ]

The only way raising his flush draw for value works is if he has an overcard flush card to the board. He doesnt really have enough players in to jam this for the value of the draw.

This looks like a protection raise, not a flush draw raise. If he was on a flush draw, the better play may be to just call the flop bet letting the player in behind him.

But lately ive seen many raise their draws like this shutting out the rest of the players behind them and collecting the least on their hand.

b

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it well. Only thing is perhaps you should've raised the turn. Perhaps he's just betting a flush draw for value, and you should make him pay. If he's got a Q or boat that sucks, but you've got to find out where you stand on the turn. With that information you can move on to the river with a better knowledge of where you stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heads-up on the turn, a bet/raise from a flush draw is not a value bet/raise.

Raising the turn does nothing for you in terms of finding out where you are at - if the opponent raised with only a flush draw, he's not folding, and he'll likely cap. This gives us zero additional information.

Against any sort of semi-reasonable opponent (which we must assume we're against given that we have no knowledge of our opponent), it's unlikely he's on a flush draw. He 3bet preflop, we have the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, and the Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif is on board. Would a non-maniac 3bet with KJ or JT? Doubtful.

The way our opponent played, it's much more likely he's either way ahead (AQ, KQ) or way behind (KK, JJ). Call the turn.

On the river, I'd lean towards betting, since we think it's not likely he has the flush - he's probably not going to raise AQ or KQ for fear of the flush, and he probably will check behind with KK or JJ.