I don't do this often but standard?

[Guido]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Guido is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Guido raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="CC3333">Guido bets</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Guido checks.

River: (8.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="CC3333">Guido bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Thanks,

Guido

[Trix]

I like it. You just dont get the chance very often.
4+ limpers I also raise with Axs from LP. I think Izmet Fekali have a good explanation of why this is good on his site.

[daveymck]

In this situation I would be betting the turn as well, noone seems to like their hand much and you may taken the pot down, even if havent then you have the odds to your draw and are building the pot if you hit.

Interesting to see the others comments on this.

[Trix]

He is against 3 players who called a bet on the flop. Someone has something. If he bets he is betting someone elses hand. He raised preflop, thats why noone bets or raises.

[Quackpot]

I think a bet on the turn may have won this one. If not, it gives the impression you have a pair and a lower flush draw would go to war on the river.

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a bet on the turn may have won this one.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with this because there were so many limpers somebody must have something.

[ QUOTE ]
If not, it gives the impression you have a pair and a lower flush draw would go to war on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that they will go to war no matter what when the third club falls on the river.

Thanks,

Guido

[daveymck]

I disagree, if he bets he is betting his own hand and the outs that he has, yes at this point he isnt ahead but by betting the turn he still has a chance to push out those better hands and is building the pot when he hits, he has a draw to the nuts I think that is the time to get those bets in there.

[Fairless]

i think you played this hand well on every street. The power of raising with Axs in LP is if you hit your hand you will most likely have the nuts and the raise will cause hands to chase you that can not win win if they hit. As for beting the turn with this many callers a semibluff would be incorrect since the possibility of all opponents folding is slim to none.

this play works well in a loose passive game where the three bet is a rarity

[Trix]

He needs 5 callers for valuebetting a flushdraw on the turn. There are only 3 other players in the pot :/
If the Ace is clean he only need 3 callers, but its a slim valuebet and he has no guarantie that they all will call.
The only reason to bet this would be to gain 2 extra outs in case someone holds A-high with better kicker and can lay it down.
Js and Ts very often hits limpers, if you bet and someone has a pair you are betting their hand.

I disagree, if he bets he is betting his own hand and the outs that he has, yes at this point he isnt ahead but by betting the turn he still has a chance to push out those better hands and is building the pot when he hits

Why bet outs and charge your self to hit, when you can see the river for free ?
You think they will fold a pair ?
Why do he need to build the pot ?

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

I like the play on every street. The turn check was easy as a bet there is not going to take the pot and you are charging yourself for the draw.

Put another way, if I'm sitting at the table with a pair and can see right through your cards to the flush draw, I'm betting into you, raising and even capping with my tens or jacks if it's just you and me. I'm way ahead of your 11-outer and am betting for value.

Well played. I usually limp with Axs preflop, but will reevaluate this in the situation you describe.

[J.R.]

reference (http://slicer.headsupclub.com:3455/16/29)

I like each street, nice hand. While Izmet's sim results indicate it is about a .15 BB mistake to limp preflop, the horridness of the play in Praty 2-4 makes me think your actually giving up more than that by limping.

[colgin]

I would bet the turn here. Your analysis of this being -EV as a pure value bet is correct (although it isn't very negative), but I think when you add the chance of winning the pot outright (or at least cleaning up some potential outs if some of your opponents fold) it turns a check into a bet. This would be more clear if the turn card was not a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Contrary to popular belief, low limit Party players do sometimes fold and I think that this is a situation in which you should give them the opprtunity to do so.

[PokerNoob]

Bet the turn, checkraise the river. What did UTG+1 call you down with?

[Guido]

Good idea! On the button /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[T5off]

Yes, standard and perfectly fine. Don't bet the turn: at 2/4 it's almost certain not everyone is going to fold.

If you're Guido Jansen, I know you /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're Guido Jansen, I know you

[/ QUOTE ]
No sorry that's not me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[T5off]

Nou ja, geeft niet!

[PokerBob]

I love A5s in LP because I can make the nuts with it. I know flopping the 4 flush is only about 8:1, so I want LOTS of chasers if I hit it. For this reason I'm not crazy about raising out the blinds. That said, I don't think the raise was a horrible move, but perhaps not as +EV as just calling.

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
so I want LOTS of chasers if I hit it

[/ QUOTE ]
I want a lot of money. Not a lot of chasers neccessary. [ QUOTE ]
but perhaps not as +EV as just calling

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you're right.

Guido