KQo in the BB, calling a button raise

[bisonbison]

I wasn't quite sure to do with this potentially dominated hand, 3-bet/fold in terrible position? Call?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Button calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

[MRBAA]

I'd probably fold preflop because the button is more likely to have you dominated with three players in. With no one or one limper in, I'd definitely call or three bet, depending how loose I think the button is. I don't think calling the raise was horrible, though. I might have checked the river, but otherwise like your play. Hopefully he had an underpair. If he had AK he should have raised the turn.

[bisonbison]

I don't think you can check-call this river. It's a blank, and MP1 sure didn't say "hey, i have the flush" on the turn.

[MRBAA]

Yeah, you're probably right. I'm not worried as much about the flush as about a passively played AK from the BB. But he's much more likely to have an underpair to the kings.

[Joe Tall]

I'd probably fold preflop because the button is more likely to have you dominated with three players in

So when I raise T9s on the button after 2 limpers and a poster you are folding KQo in the BB? Well, I know exactly where I want you to sit next time you are at Foxwoods. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif (Then I'll be raising 76s after limpers, heh! /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Peace,
Joe Tall

[PokerBob]

I think I muck pre-flop, as KQo gets ugly if you hit a K or a Q. That said, if there wasn't a MP limper and the button was aggressive, I'd 3-bet him and then lead out on the flop no matter what hit.

[Joe Tall]

Sometimes you will lose to passive-AK, most of the time you will not. I really like the way you played the hand and nice table selection.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Bob T.]

I like it. The tough thing is, how do you play if the button reraises the flop?

[bisonbison]

I think I muck pre-flop, as KQo gets ugly if you hit a K or a Q

Yikes. No. What's KQo without hitting a K or a Q? king-high.

It gets ugly if you overplay it, but otherwise it's a pretty profitable hand, assuming that your opponents are capable of raising something other than AA, AK, KK, and QQ.

Playing KQ scared is a great way to miss bets. It's one of my favorite hands.

The combination of position, possibility of domination and large number of likely callers is what made me wonder about 3-bet/call/fold. The potential for domination itself is not enough reason for me to toss the hand for 1 bet.

[bisonbison]

I'd probably call down and hope my backdoor flush draw hits.

[ZootMurph]

Would anyone here have bet/called the flop and check/raised the turn?

That could get rid of the AK. If he calls or reraises, you can be sure you are beat and fold with confidence. I was thinking only a flush, trips, or A /images/graemlins/spade.gif could call you there, and you would lose the same amount either way. However, you would have a good chance of taking the pot from the AK or AA on the raise and A /images/graemlins/spade.gif on the river. Also, you'd have a chance to take the pot from the trips on the river as well with a bet... although I'd probably not fold trips.

[Joe Tall]

Would anyone here have bet/called the flop and check/raised the turn?

This is not a bad line of play but on a drawy-board such as this playing it fast as bison did is a better line. Looking to shut out the field to get the button heads up is usually the better line.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[ZootMurph]

Thanks, Joe! You're right, of course.

Seeing what is about to come off the deck makes for a better read on what you 'could' do /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nottom]

I think you played this fine. If the button is a decent player you could easily have the best hand since it doesn't take a whole lot of a hand to raise some limpers/posters from the button. If he has you beat he saved you a bet or two.

I'll go out on a limp and say you took down his KJs.

[bisonbison]

I'll go out on a limp and say you took down his KJs.

dingdingding

[Nottom]

You could consider this line with better position, but its almost always best to play your hand fast out of the blinds. You'd really hate for him to check though the with something like 9Ts, plus you would like to go ahead and put all the player in the middle to a decision on the flop to keep any unwanted hands (especially the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif) from seeing the turn.

[Catch of the Day]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I muck pre-flop, as KQo gets ugly if you hit a K or a Q

Yikes. No. What's KQo without hitting a K or a Q? king-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol I actually laughed cause I was thinking the same thing. I know that I hate it when I hit TP 2nd best kicker. I mean the button must have AA, KK, or AK to raise PF there /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Be afraid be very afraid /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I thought you played it great BB.

Catch-

[biggambler]

1. You have a King and a Queen.
2. The button raises pre-flop after two limpers.
3. The flop comes with a King or a Queen and no Aces.
4. You have to keep betting untill someone tells you that you are beaten.

If you can't do number 4 above then don't play KQ at all; maybe don't play holdem.

[bisonbison]

You don't need to tell me, dude.

[PokerNoob]

I seriously consider 3 betting preflop to get rid of poster and maybe limper. Maniacal? Think you lose flop checkraisability when doing this?

I agree with #4 without the sarcasm of course. I have found that in a majority of these games, betting out on the flop to a typical PF raiser with your top pair of A, K, or Q gets resistance of a raise only if you are beat most of the time.

[bisonbison]

right, but betting out on the flop may leave the hand 4 or 5 handed. I don't want it multiway. I want it heads up.

[MRBAA]

I've been raising much more preflop from mp on with 88, 99, 1010 and limpers in because people in party 2-4 come with such crap that you're often getting a huge edge. In this hand, I think I was giving too much respect to what people will limp with/what the button needs to raise them. AK would have let you know on the turn. Well played.

[Homer]

Yes, call preflop. Rest of the hand is routine.

[Trix]

I like calling as it sets up an easy check-raise if you hit.
KJo,ATo I prolly muck preflop.

[Catch of the Day]

Ah yes...Billy beer...

[PokerBob]

It gets ugly if you are against AK or AQ, is what I meant to say. If the assumption is that the button will raise with something OTHER that AA, KK, QQ, AK or AQ there, then IMO a call is the WRONG move and you MUST 3-bet to try to get the button HU. Any thoughts?

[PokerBob]

Wouldn't you want multiple players w/T9s? Why raise on the button and risk losing the SB, BB and maybe poster? Is this a hand you want HU after the flop? Granted you would have position, but....???? What am I missing here?

[scrub]

I like it.

You can't fold preflop and I don't like 3-betting.

Great time to go for the checkraise.

Way to keep betting the best hand.

Ni han.

scrub