33 in BB good flop but...

[BIGRED]

Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed)
Hero has 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif and is BB

MP1 plays many hands and lucked out several times with some crappy cards. Everyone at this point is trying to make him pay.

MP3 is new to the table, so I have no idea how he plays, but his screen name is insanoman... uh oh. Can he be a 2+2'er?

UTG limps, MP1 limps, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls

Flop(10 1/2 SB): 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls

Turn(12 1/4 BB): 9/images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls

River(21 1/4 BB): 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP3 raises, Hero calls

I knew I was beat, but what da heck I came this far. I think I know what my mistake here was, but tell me your thoughts. Simply put, I was in denial that somebody could have a better hand than me at the flop. I was so excited by my set that I went into a no turning back aggro mode.

Result to follow.

[mmanne]

I think you played it fine, you should lose a lot of money, when your set gets cracked by another set, I'm assuming he had Presto.
But, personally, I like to bet out in Early position against this many people when I catch my set. The check raise will announce a great hand. But if you bet, and someone raises, you can get a CR in on the Turn for big cash against a bunch of people.

[bernie]

you played it fine. i can see the MP3 having 67d. maybe a set of 5s.

when i flop a set on a board like this, im instantly thinking, cap the flop.

if you lose with a set, and blew alot of chips in the process, you played it pretty well. ever see the guys who go into call down mode after a single flop raise with a set? do you think they played it well?

if this was a monotone board id have tried to cap this flop with this many players. THEN i may slowdown quicker on the turn.

b

[BIGRED]

MP3 had 55.

[chesspain]

I think you played this fine. If you lost to a better hand, so be it.

I'm curious why you assume that MP3 is a good player, since I don't think he played this hand well at all. Indeed, the only hands which make any sense given his play are 55, K5s, and K3s, all of which are bad coldcalls unless the table is playing super loose-passive, and KQ/AK, which he would have misplayed on nearly every street. In addition, he doesn't cap the turn but raises you on the river(!?). I think that more times than not your set is going to be good at the end.

[BIGRED]

But if I thought this thru logically, I think I could have convinced myself that he also had a PP that got hooked up on the flop.

Ok, after the flop, the possibility also exists that he is on a diamond draw, and with many hands in, I guess you can 4-bet a nut flush draw.

But what do you read from the betting at the turn? I was confused here because if he did have a set (KK), then why would he also 4-bet here? So, I'm thinking, ok... maybe he is on a flush draw. How about 55? Well... he initiated the raise on the flop so what can you say about him having 55?

[BIGRED]

[ QUOTE ]
Well... he initiated the raise on the flop so what can you say about him having 55?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check that... MP3 cold called MP2's raise PF.

[BIGRED]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious why you assume that MP3 is a good player, since I don't think he played this hand well at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're referring to my comment that he may be a 2+2'er, that was just a off the cuff remark...

Are you saying all 2+2'er = good player? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[scotnt73]

you played it fine.

[BIGRED]

So no one so far thinks I overplayed my set?
Is it because he didn't cap the turn? This was also my point of confusion when I was playing the hand.

Would anyone have played this hand defensively? or even folded it?

[mmanne]

I think if you never stopped betting/raising a set without a four-flush or a four-straight, you would be playing it well.

I hope no one on this forum would have folded this hand ever ...

[Lori]

I'm weak-tight and even I don't think you overplayed it.

Lori

[BIGRED]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you never stopped betting/raising a set without a four-flush or a four-straight, you would be playing it well.

I hope no one on this forum would have folded this hand ever ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you confident that you will win more than you will lose in situations like this? I was thinking he had KK when he capped the flop. But, like you guys said, I wanted to play my hand aggressively, so I continued to bet on the turn, and when he didn't cap my re-raise, this is when I got confused. Perhaps I could have saved a bet at the end by just check-calling.

Do you guys also agree with my betting out at the river ???

[Schmed]

Preflop fine.

On the flop The mp3's lag reraise screams big hand or big draw. So it would either be the KK or Axs where the x is a diamond.

You probably got hit with his KK. I think he played it poorly preflop because I would have wanted to reraise and shut people out.

I would probably have just called his turn raise and check called his bet on the river. Here we get in to the "value bet" on the river if he was playing his flush draw aggressively but I have to think he has a better set.

[Schmed]

see chesspains post. Cold calling 2 with 5's is bad news. He got lucky but he wont always get lucky.

[alfman]

Absolutely. Don't just cap with the nuts.

[BIGRED]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop fine.

On the flop The mp3's lag reraise screams big hand or big draw. So it would either be the KK or Axs where the x is a diamond.

You probably got hit with his KK. I think he played it poorly preflop because I would have wanted to reraise and shut people out.

I would probably have just called his turn raise and check called his bet on the river. Here we get in to the "value bet" on the river if he was playing his flush draw aggressively but I have to think he has a better set.

[/ QUOTE ]

The way you describe it is the way I would have replyed it. I was a bit thrown back by everyone saying I played the hand fine. I think your approach makes more sense.

[BIGRED]

[ QUOTE ]
see chesspains post. Cold calling 2 with 5's is bad news. He got lucky but he wont always get lucky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... I was thoroughly confused by his betting thru out the hand. But I knew I was beat when I got raised at the river. But how can you fold now?

[mmanne]

Do you really think that only KK or Axs will lag-reraise on the flop? I can put him on a range of hands at that time depending on how good a player he is: I could see any number of diamond draws from the Ax /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Qx /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 55, K5, K2, 46 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 67 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, KK

I know many players that would lag-reraise with any of those hands. If you can put them on this range of hands, you should be putting as many bets as possible in. And, most of those hands raise on the turn.

I'll say again, "if you never stopped betting/raising a set without a four-flush or a four-straight, you would be playing it well"

[Schmed]

I would add the 55 in those range of hands but it's hard for me to make an argument for the K5s, K3s, 46s, or even 67s cold calling 2. Maybe the 67 but not the others. Not saying it doesn't happen but just that it's not all that common.

My point is the lag reraise, especially live, especially at these limits, means one of two things, big hand or big draw.

[bernie]

at these limits it could be top pair/crap kicker.

KK is a stretch here. monsters under the bed? most will always raise preflop with AA or KK. many dont c/r the flop with a set. they wait to the turn. unless they're making it 3 bets on the flop. the wake up and '3 bet'.

no way im slowing down to a flop raise and putting him on a better hand. ill save that for the turn. slowing down to a raise on the flop is a little weak here, imo. it's also giving your opponent too much credit for a bigger hand in most instances.

b

[bernie]

why are you putting him on KK?

again, id have played it the same way you did.

BUT if you reeeaallly need to hear it, you shouldve folded this preflop. only play top pairs jacks or better. and that's it.

feel better? didnt think so.

you played it fine. it happens. wouldnt it be nice to see him with a flopped 2 pair. that happens also.

b

[bernie]

if he coldcalls with K5s, he'd likely do it with 67s also. after all not only is it soooted, but connected. woo hoo!

b