Took me over a year for the first ... 4 days later here we go again

[Nottom]

One bright spot from yesterday's otherwise crappy pokering.

I'm dealt Q /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif and open raise from MP. All fold to the button who 3-bets. Blinds fold, and I call.

Flop: A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif
Not a bad flop.

I bet out and get raised. I 3bet and he calls.

Turn: T /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I bet, he raises. Well looks like he has a Q too, good thing I'm free-rolling with the nut-flush draw and I happily 3-bet which puts him all-in.

River: J /images/graemlins/club.gif
Bingo!

And I didn't even get a nh from the table, wtf? Guess you only get those when you win with 92o.

[RickA]

Nottom

vnh

Since I figure you will enjoy talking about this hand for a while, I have a question. Why did you open raise? Is this not a hand that plays better multi way?

Thanks
RickA

[josie_wales]

Nottom,
I too was wondering about that open raise?

Are you trying to force out some of the lesser Ax's and Kx's?

JW

[chrisgs]

VNH

Did he have a Q(I would hope so)?

[josie_wales]

And oh yeah....

'nh'

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

jw

[GuyOnTilt]

I too was wondering about that open raise?

If you never open-limped in MP, you wouldn't be making a mistake. His raise is fine as long as the players on his left aren't tough and he himself hasn't been raising liberally. In some cases, it may be a fold.

GoT

[spamuell]

If you never open-limped in MP, you wouldn't be making a mistake.

What about on a loose passive table in MP with 5 players to act behind you (MP3, CO, button, blinds) with 77? what about 87s? 55?

Would you open raise these?

You're surely losing a lot from folding them, and you want others in the pot with you with them, and good implied odds. Surely open limping is the only way to go - you're likely to be called in several spots.

[slogger]

"...77? what about 87s? 55?...

"You're surely losing <font color="blue"> a lot </font> from folding them"

I don't know that you're losing much, if anything. I'd certainly open raise w/ the 77 in that spot, and though I might open-limp w/ 55 (EMP fold, MP limp, LP raise), I don't think I'd lose much by folding it in MP. As for 87s, you're certainly not losing anything by folding it in MP, rather than open-limping. As you said, it's a drawing hand that likes cheap-entry multi-way pots, so it's not worth playing up front or in MP when you have no reason to expect muti-way action. Not to mention the fact that an open limp from MP or LMP is practically begging for a raise from the CO, button or blinds.

It would have to be a ridiculously loose passive game for me to open limp 87s in MP.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on why I might be wrong.

[Nottom]

I would raise 77, and usually fold the others.

Most tables I've been plaing at recently aren't particularly passive and usually have 3-4 to the flop if someone limps in from EP.

I really don't like open limping from that late and QT is really marginal. If I haven't played a hand in a while I will usually go ahead and open raise with QTs and prolly fold QTo from there, from one spot closer to the button I would usually raise with either.

[Nottom]

He had KQo and got a note next to his name for 3-betting me.

[GuyOnTilt]

What about on a loose passive table in MP with 5 players to act behind you (MP3, CO, button, blinds) with 77? what about 87s? 55?

Would you open raise these?

You're surely losing a lot from folding them

Not really. After 4 folds, I'd definitely raise 77. At some tables I'd raise 55 as well. 87s is an easy fold after 3 or more folds. Limping with it would be a definitely mistake.

Nottom didn't say whether his raise with QTs was after 3 folds or 4, or whether the table was 10-handed or 9-handed. These things make a difference.

GoT

[DonWaade]

nh lol

[Nottom]

I was 3 off the button so if the table was full there had been 4 folds.

[ElSapo]

A years to the first one, four days to the second... At this increased rate you should be unstoppable at the tables.

[Glenn]

"He had KQo and got a note next to his name for 3-betting me. "

Why is this worthy of a note? Do you think it's a bad play to 3-bet QTs with KQo?

[Nottom]

unless he was looking at my screen, yes.

[BugsBunny]

Edit: oops - he had QTs not JTs. A lot of the below also applies to QT, but QT is a weaker hand - so the offsuit version I wouldn't play as early. I usually wait till the CO to even limp behind with it.

There's really a huge difference between TJs and TJo. I'll open-raise with TJs everytime from MP1 or later (and limp with it every time from EP, or later, if there's limpers in front). I'll even cold-call (or, rarely, reraise) with it if the circumstances are right. Basically I'll open-raise any 2 suited cards &gt;= T from MP1 or later (among other things).

If everyone folds and I get the blinds great. If (almost) everyone calls and I have a healthy multiway pot I'm happy with that as well. And if it's only 1 or 2 opponents that works to (I like playing shorthanded) - unless I get reraised, then it's more troublesome (obviously).

JTo I won't open-raise with unless I'm in the CO or on the BT. It's a more than decent blind steal hand. I will open limp with it from MP2 or later. I'll limp behind from MP1 or later.

It's not a bad hand shorthanded, as long as you can get away from it. In a family pot it's essential that you be able to get away from it if necessary. You have to be able to play postflop to play this hand, but if you can play postflop it will make mopney for you.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this not a hand that plays better multi way?


[/ QUOTE ]

It plays even better against zero opponents.

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
And I didn't even get a nh from the table, wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you will get one from me, "nh" or should I say, "VNH!"

[Uppercut]

I too received a club Royal Flush tonight, except I folded my A /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif on the turn with the K /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif on the board because a)the pot was very small and b)I was looking at a bet and a raise to me and c)the board was paired, thus reducing my nut flush possibility. Had I called the raise, I would've been getting only 2.5 to 1 odds for my 12 river outs (3 Queens and 9 clubs) with the possibility of being re-raised by the initial bettor. Of course, the river showed the Q /images/graemlins/club.gif and the winner dragged in a mighty 5.5 BB pot. I laughed and then moved on.

[TimM]

Nice hand - got my first after only 2 months, and I also got no nh or anything. Maybe I deserved it check-raising the guy like that, but I was sure he had the flush when I got raised on the turn. Once I saw he only had 53s I was shocked he bet the river.

Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed)
Hero has 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is SB

UTG limps, EP2 limps, CO(poster) checks, Button folds, Hero limps, BB checks

Flop(5 SB): Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, EP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls

Turn(5 BB): A/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, EP2 raises, CO folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG folds

River(11 BB): T/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, EP2 bets, Hero raises, EP2 calls

EP2 had 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif