How to handle bad beats at the table

[winky51]

Lets say you are taking sever punishment from players at the table. Rivered a lot, You hold KK and they have A2 and get the ace, and so on. Just one of those nights that lady luck is not gentile.

You know your better than the bad players and they are winning by sheer luck on the river mostly.

Now they start bluffing against you.

What should you do? Move tables, call some hands?

I noticed that when I played at a table and of the 22 flops I saw in 1 hour 14 I got rivered on and then they started bluffing. I tried to call some but I was usually wrong on the bluff catches and just paid them. When they did bluff I didn't catch them.

From this experience I figure move to another table.

[bicyclekick]

you saw 22 flops in an hour?

I hope you're exagerating.

[bisonbison]

[ QUOTE ]
Lets say you are taking sever punishment... lady luck is not gentile... of the 22 flops I saw in 1 hour...

[/ QUOTE ]

The Jewish lady luck is severing you because you are seeing too many flops and too many rivers.

[winky51]

It was 2 tables.

[Yeknom58]

How did you know you they were bluffing when you folded? And how strong were the hands you called with?

So to summarize your post you said you called down when you held the worst hand and you folded when you had the best hand. Now you're wondering if you should move tables of call down with crap more often. I think you need to post some hands and study more 2+2. It looks like you just got outplayed by better opponents. Just because someone is loose doesn't mean they don't play well.

[unome]

I've never really kept track of how many flops I've seen in an hour, but i'm willing to guess that I see somewhere around 22 flops in 1 hour while playing 3 tables on an average night. (Maybe i'm off, but it doesn't sound like THAT many...)

[winky51]

Oooh how about hands like QQ 4 times KK AA, top two pair, trips. They are on a flush draw and get it last card. Does that help. No they sucked. They played Q5 os, or 982 os after I raise with QQ. Through out the night I lost QQ 7 of 8 times in a row to the river. I had real hands that were 90% favorites.

The bluffs I saw becuase there were other players in the pot after I folded and when I see that 5 times they are bluffing me. I had a bad night before so this night I wrote down a lot of information to see if it was me or not. When an idiot reraises you with 75 of spades and then pulls a full house you can't see that when you have a straight. Or another example is me having a full house, top full house and on the last card he gets quads.

So don't tell me it was me. This time it was NOT! All my nights that I had bad beats I could have reduced my losses by playing better. This night the cards were vicious.

8x QQ heads up I lost 7 to the river.
3x KK I lost all to river twice and a secret set of 555.
2x AA I got I won once and lost once to 7755 2 pair.

In 170 flops I saw I got exactly 2 straight, 7 trips, and zero flushes, I missed all the rest and yes I looked at pot odds. I played 25% of the cards shown.

There was one good player at each table and the rest were crap. They played cards I wouldn't even play in the small blind for a dollar.

What do you do when you have a night like this? Obviously you get frustrated and 2nd guessing yourself. People start to bluff with anything. Should you leave or fight it out. I say take a break and find a new table. So I want the expert's opinion on the situation not my play. I know what I did and didn't do.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do when you have a night like this? Obviously you get frustrated and 2nd guessing yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to stop letting the showdown results change your basic strategy. You shouldn't let how much you've lost in a certain period of time influence your approach to the game.

Your goal is to play each and every hand you're dealt as best as you possibly can. If your play is good enough, you will win money in the long run.

Sure, if you see players bluffing too much, you call with weaker hands than usual. If you see them playing too many weak hands for multiple bets, then raise pre-flop more often.

The biggest mistake you made was thinking that you need to change the way you play.

[winky51]

Thanks, a real answer. I appreciated that /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Yeknom58]

Everyone has bad nights/weeks/months but generally my play does not deteriorate to a point where people can easily bluff me with anything. I may call down too much but I'm not folding winners very often. If the people on your table were as bad as you describe I would stay at that table as long as it's running. You want to be sitting at a table where the play is poor. I think you are under the impression that if your opponents would stop playing 7-5o you would make more money and you should move up in limits so theses "lucky guys" go away. Who do you want sitting at your table? People who play tight,agressive, and are tricky...NO...You make your money off the 9999/1000 that 75o doesn't make a full house.

Again I'm telling you...IT'S YOU. YOU are the one calling down when you're beat and YOU are the one folding winners. Everyone has multiple runs of bad luck but once you get more experience you realize it's just part of the game and you can't get upset and start playing poorly.

On a side note....if your stats are correct you are like the luckiest guy ever. You played 170 hands in a hour and played 22. Of that 22 hands you got AA/KK/QQ 13 times. WOW. I rarely get runs like that.

[Warior]

OK, first off bad beats are part of the game. Two, did they have drawing odds??? If they had 2 suited cards and flopped 2 more they most likely had the pot odds to try and draw out you, they will hit 1 in 4 and some days every time. However, in the long run you will win 3 out of every 4. If they didn't have odds be thankful because these are the people that will supply your profit as time goes on.

Now if your table image is shot to you know what and they are now making plays on you because you are playing scared or tilting. It's time to move tables because you will be getting the worst of it, just look for them another time when you have your game back together.

Also, when your done with a session like that get your hand histories and review EVERY hand. I would tend to say in some cases your betting or lack of aggression allowed them to cheaply draw as well. If you reveiw all your hands during a bad stretch you will learn quite abit about your game and identify some leaks. Now go and fix them.

Always remember that poker is a marathon game not a sprint and solid play will ALWAYS win in the long run.

Good luck and I hope you get something out of this little bad patch after all you did pay for the lesson.

[winky51]

Hours 5
hands 680
flops seen 170
2 tables short handed.

And yes I did get some nice hands, a lot but they were bitch slapped. Never had so many good hands with so much bitch slapping.

[winky51]

Thanks for the extra info. They were getting pot odds on their play. I was aggressively betting my good hands. But as you know bad players will still call no matter what to get that flush or straight.

But yes I did learn something from the costly lesson, LEAVE THE TABLE and take a break. Then come back the next day and get a refund for your lesson.

I am not good enough yet to have vulcan emotions at the table. But I do read a lot, 6 books now and rereads 2 of them 3 times now. I know I will get to be really good one day and I make money I would say 5.5 of 7 days that I play.

[richie]

Winky, you are the unluckiest person in the poker world. I can't imagine that you lost to a flush on the river. And to think, people actually had "secret" sets against you? Wow!
I really like how you called when they had good cards, but folded your better hands to bluffs. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you are still playing several months from now, you are going to be embarrassed about this post. Not to be mean, but it sounds contrived, and I think you're lying to yourself about your poker abilities. I mean, you yourself have stated you began playing hold'em in January, and now you believe you are an expert?

If you think you are being outplayed, you should find another table. Perhaps you should play 1 table at a time. You're going to get rivered alot, get used to it. You play flush draws, don't you? You consider that a suckout? I don't, assuming pot odds are favorable.

Finally, don't assume because you know a few things about poker, that you are automatically going to win. You can't win every session, you can only play the best you can and hope for good results. I've got a lot hours playing low limit HE on the internet and it still can be frustrating, you just have to roll with the bad sessions and keep playing your best poker. If you go on tilt, you have to accept that you blew it that session, and quit blaming others for your poor results. Being honest with yourself is one way to become a better player. Get Pokertracker if you don't have it already, download all your sessions, and start reviewing your play. Good luck to you.

[winky51]

Never said I was an expert. I guess it is just hard to accept such a bad session. I figure a bad session is -$100 for the day not .... I don't even want to tell you.

I have won $600 in a day and lost $300 on bad days. That day was just bad. That 1st hour (about) where I lost to the river 14 of 22 flops should have been a sign (two tables). How do I know? Because I called for value all 14. Some were even gut shots they made. I should have quite that 1st hour.

Well that night I was pissed but I know that I have won 24 of 32 sessions that I have played. So I have to be doing something right. Most days I make $150-$300 playing 3/6 x2