Ax Suited in BB w/ a Raise

[mike_wzrd]

I'm never sure when I should call a raise with AXs in the BB.

Party 3/6 with 9 players

Hero in BB w/ A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

UTG limps, MP1 limps, MP2 limps, CO raises, button folds, SB folds, Hero on BB calls, everyone else calls. 5 people to see the flop.

Should I have called the raise or folded? I was pretty sure everyone behind me would call. Most of the players would have already raised is they were going too. That would mean 9:1 SBs. My plan was to see the flop and if it didn't hit me hard, then fold.

Flop (10 1/3 SB): 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, hero calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

My thinking on the flop is that I'm getting 11:1 or 12:1 odds. I have a back door str8 or back door flush draw and a 7 gives me 2 pair.

Turn (6 4/6 BB): 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

8:1 odds for a flush draw, so easy call.

River (9 4/6BB): 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Evaluation of play? What is your criteria for calling a raise with AXs in BB?

[Clarkmeister]

"What is your criteria for calling a raise with AXs in BB?"

Unless it leaves me headsup with a tight EP raiser, I'll call a raise in the BB with Axs every time.

[Trix]

[Sleepy Weasel]

Anyone bet out on the flop here?

[Clarkmeister]

That gets more complicated and really depends on the specific table and players involved. In general when its a close decision, be more inclined to play against bad players and more inclined to fold against good players.

[mike_wzrd]

Even if there are only a couple of players in? Odds of hitting the 4 flush, catching 2 pair or 77 on flop are not that good. Seems like you would need multiple players and low risk of a reraise to see a positive EV.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if there are only a couple of players in? Odds of hitting the 4 flush, catching 2 pair or 77 on flop are not that good. Seems like you would need multiple players and low risk of a reraise to see a positive EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmm, I could hit an ace too. That's not the worst thing in the world you know.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless it leaves me headsup with a tight EP raiser, I'll call a raise in the BB with Axs every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same.

[mike_wzrd]

[ QUOTE ]
Ummmm, I could hit an ace too. That's not the worst thing in the world you know.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hit an ace on the flop, but I'm always concerned that I'm dominated. What's your play on the flop when you hit the ace. Perhaps this goes back to a Sleepy Weasel's question. Do you raise on the flop to find out where you are with the ace?

[Clarkmeister]

I want to revisit this point because I think many on here don't get it.

What makes Axs so much better than 56s isn't the fact that you have the nut flush draw instead of a non-nut flush draw. Its the fact that you have a freaking ace and will win many pots with top pair. I want to make sure everyone understands this.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ummmm, I could hit an ace too. That's not the worst thing in the world you know.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hit an ace on the flop, but I'm always concerned that I'm dominated. What's your play on the flop when you hit the ace. Perhaps this goes back to a Sleepy Weasel's question. Do you raise on the flop to find out where you are with the ace?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to be trite, but it depends. No one said this poker thing was easy. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Sleepy Weasel]

How about in this hand specifically. Or did you mean it depends on the other players in the hand?

[greenage]

You become the one everyone hates when they raise PF with KK, QQ,... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
How about in this hand specifically. Or did you mean it depends on the other players in the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on a ton of stuff, including the other players, your own table image, how people react to you, the way the table has been playing, etc.

The way that he played this particular hand was fine. There are other lines that are fine as well, including betting out on the turn. But again, which line is preferable is dependant on lots of things. Its the old "no hand occurs in a vacuum" concept.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
You become the one everyone hates when they raise PF with KK, QQ,... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's OK, I don't play poker to make friends. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[sfer]

I would be inclined to bet out if the CO is straightforward and wouldn't raise with an underpair. It's a draw heavy flop and a big Ace would probably want to protect his hand, so you'd see where you stand quickly.

[brian0729]

More fuel to the fire. I like a C/R on the flop. I am working with my TP right now and would love to thin the field. Or is this a bad idea, is trying to get it HU w/ the pre flop raiser a little bit impaitent here?

Easy call PF in this family pot.

[Sleepy Weasel]

[ QUOTE ]
More fuel to the fire. I like a C/R on the flop. I am working with my TP right now and would love to thin the field. Or is this a bad idea, is trying to get it HU w/ the pre flop raiser a little bit impaitent here?

[/ QUOTE ]

That occured to me too, but then I thought, who would you be trying to fold here? Something like A8-AT would be good to get rid of of course, but without any table reads, I'd expect them to bet out on the flop, and nobody did. You're not getting rid of any 4-flush or OESD certainly. You beat any backdoor flush draw. The only thing I can think of is a gutshot. Is that worth the distinct possibility of getting 3-bet by CO? I'm not sure, maybe it is.

It seems to me that you're either ahead (CO has something like KK, QQ, KQ, whatever), or behind a big ace, in which case you're drawing. I'd probably be inclined to bet out and see how CO feels about the flop. Of course then you have to decide if you believe him when he raises you. Ok Clark, I see your point now, it does depend /images/graemlins/smile.gif.