30+3 Pot Limit Hold 'em on Stars... lots of tough choices

[Dentist]

My dilemmas of the night.. flopped sets on scary boards... badly played or just bad luck?

I'm an average stack in the tournament with the blinds at 100-200 on Pokerstars.

3 players limped and so I limp in as well with RED Pocket 4's on the button.

The BB checks and 5 players take a flop that comes:
A K 4 ALL CLUBS

BB checks, 1st to act Bets 1/2 pot
2nd player calls, 3rd folds
and it's on me...

I felt like the first bet was an Ace betting, and the 2nd caller had a flush draw.... I felt strongly that I had the best hand.

So I raised the size of the pot.
The first player called for the rest of their stack (which was relatively short)

The other caller pushed in the rest of his chips (not much more) and I had him covered and was pot-committed.

The first player had an AJ with no club
The second player had the "nut flush draw" with Qc9s

A club hits the turn and i'm left very short stacked...
Was this an incidence where with bottom set on a scary board that I should have been inclined to fold.. especially with a better and caller in?
Or should I never have been in the hand to begin with?


Hand 2:
Much later in the tourney (after I made some sensational moves and doubled several times after that bad beat)

TWO tables left (300 started):
I have about 40,000 in chips
Blinds 1500-3000
Player directly to my left who has 55,000 in chips and whose play I have no line on makes the minimum raise to 6,000

I have 88.. I'm in 4th position out of 14 at this point, the money doesn't go up until the final table..

I consider 3-betting but the tables had gotten so tight lately that I feared him coming over the top... however I felt that if I could flop a set or an overpair if low cards came that I could have a chance at his stack..

So I called the raise and the blinds folded and the flop came:
8 7 6 with 2 hearts.

Obviously I'm elated..
He checks and I firmly believe this is NO time to slowplay - so I bet the pot (17,000)

He check-raised all in....

My immediate thoughts were... he's got an overpair or something like A8.. or he's putting me on making a move and wants to "re-move"..

I quickly call because I couldn't fear him flopping a straight heads-up like that...

He flips over K 9 of spades... so I'm facing an open ended straight draw plus a runner runner flush draw...

He hits the 10 on the turn and I'm OUTTA here!!!!

I know not to be results-oriented.. but somehow I feel something went wrong here.. I mean, I asked him if I'd 3-bet pre-flop would he have called.... he said no..

Then I asked why he made the play.. his answer... "I put you on a move or 1 pair at best and if you only had a pair I had TONS of outs.. and even with your set, I still had 8"

these hands made me wonder if it's not just better to have a 100% chance of winning a small pot with someone folding.. or if it's better to be a 70% favorite in a monster pot...

All I keep thinking is that if I win that hand.. i'm in some SERIOUS dough in the tourney.. that would have made me the chip leader by a lot...

Advice 2+2ers?

[kerssens]

If I'm reading it right you were all in with the best hand agaist a draw both times so I don't think you did anything wrong....I'd take a 70% change at the monster, the money you make when you do hit will outweigh the few bad beats you take

[eMarkM]

1) The limp is fine (though you don't say what your stack size was). You read right, got your money in with the best of it on two stacks you had covered and got drawn out. I think it's too weak to fold a set here. Next...

2) Confused on the preflop play. He's to your left, but you act behind him? You in the blind here? Did you limp first or raise? Anyway, just calling him is correct. Last thing you want is a monster confrontation with the one stack that can hurt you and 88 is too good to lay down I think.

No way I lay down top set on this board. This is your dream come true and you pray he has an overpair and will get aggressive with it. Can't put him on JT and if he has it, you have redraw. You get him to semi-bluff off all his chips with you a 3-1 fav and he hits his hand. 3 times out of 4 you're going to be new chip leader here and probably go onto to a top 3 finish and big money. Have no regrets here.

[sam h]

You played both hands fine. In the first, the fact that you have two other opponents is actually good news. There's no way you should be doing anything except moving in there, especially with both of them shortstacked.

On the second hand, a baby raise like that usually means crap but sometimes can mean a big pair. Making a small raise is not going to be enough to get this guy to fold, so if you want to raise you're really committing a large portion of your stack. So flat-calling the raise and seeing what the flop brings is perfectly fine as long as you think you can outplay your opponent and win a fair amount of the time when you don't flop a set. If it's set or bust, you should just fold the hand before the flop or move in and hope for the best.

[Dentist]

sorry emark.. the guy was one to my right.. not left...

sometimes i get those confused.......

[ThaSaltCracka]

do you have the button on the last situation as well?

I think you should have raised preflop, in the first example, most of the players have folded in front of you, so you aren't likely to get the action you want with a low set. I think you should have raised in LP and tried to either isolate yourself with the AJ, I don't know how the Q9 can call a large raise.

In the second example I would have raised preflop as well, if you were on the button. If you weren't on the button calling is fine as well. your opponents play is suspect somewhat but you can't blame him for having the wrong read on you, you should be happy with that, except for the results part of it /images/graemlins/grin.gif