pop him now or keep on pullin

[Eric P]

I have 33 in BB and it's folded to me after UTG + 2 raise, 3-6 game on party so this probably just means any pair or high suited cards or any ace. i call
flop: 559 rainbow
i check/call
turn:5
i check/raise
Question is should i raise here where he will fold any hand that is losing (except MAYYYYYYYBE AK or AQ) or should i call and try and get an extra bet. Note the only way this happens is if a card that misses him comes and he still bluffs when i check, if i do this... do i riase?

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I have 33 in BB and it's folded to me after UTG + 2 raise, 3-6 game on party so this probably just means any pair or high suited cards or any ace. i call

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, "any pair" other than 22 has you smoked. How many callers did you have? What type of player is EP?

I think folding preflop is perferred.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[crockpot]

the big question here is can you safely fold to a reraise? or better, WILL you fold if he reraises, knowing that you weren't bluffed out? if the answer is yes, then raise now. if it isn't, i think you're better off calling him down so you lose the least to an overpair. he may think he is betting an ace for value anyway on the river.

[Aces McGee]

Your post seems to assume that you are ahead of him, even though any pair besides deuces beats you.

I'd either fold or reraise preflop. If I just called like you did, I'd check-raise the flop.

Now, to get to your question. If you KNEW he was on overcards, then I'd pop him here. If you just check-call and then check the river, he might check it through unimproved. But it's pretty likely that he'll call your turn raise.

The point is, though, you don't know if you're ahead here. I'd try to get that information on the flop.

McGee

[bernie]

i fold this preflop.

i want 1 caller in between to make this call.

if he doesnt fold to the turn raise, you're likely beat and he isnt folding the river. you're representing trips and he's still in.

b

[rigoletto]

You shouldn't bet or raise anywhere and checkraising the turn was a mistake.

You are either ahead on the turn with him drawing to 7 outs or you are way behind drawing dead and when he calls the checkraise what do you do with the river?

On the river he'll not fold a better hand and he'll fold most of his worse hands so a bet serves no purpose. Besides you like him to check behind the times he has a small pair.

[rigoletto]

if he doesnt fold to the turn raise, you're likely beat and he isnt folding the river. you're representing trips and he's still in.

actually they are both showing trips!

[Aces McGee]

Hi Rigoletto

Is a flop check-raise incorrect?

McGee

[rigoletto]

Let me first add that I like others think a preflop fold is best.

Yes I think the flop checkraise is incorrect. If your opponent is likely to put you on a bluff (on a obviously bluff worthy board) he might pop you right back with A high. If he worry about trips he's more likely to call down with a big pair than folding and you end up losing more. Basically a flop checkraise will only fold worse hands that are drawing thin, you don't really like them to stay but the alternative is worse and they make a mistake by betting the flop.

I think the best course of action is chekking the flop and call all the way. If the flop is checked through, bet the turn and check the river.

As you can tell this is a hard hand to play HU out of position, which is why the preflop fold is the best course of action.

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
As you can tell this is a hard hand to play HU out of position, which is why the preflop fold is the best course of action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this about sums it up. I like your reasoning, even though playing it that way seems odd. Would your strategy change if you KNEW he was on overcards?

Once in a while, if the preflop raiser is loose/semi-maniacal or has been running over the table of late, I might 3 bet him to become the aggressor in the hand. Not often, but if the situation is right. If not, I agree that a preflop fold is best.

Thanks for the response.

McGee

[slavic]

Bernie- I think you call if there is a cold caller but I think it's a better situation for you if there isn't a cold caller.

You are getting 3.3 to 1 on pretty much a coin flip. 3 way you are getting 5 to 1 on a 7.5 to 1 proposition.

[bernie]

you're out of position, and you still have to pretty much flop a set to win. otherwise you're in a 3 street guessing game. i want a chance at some players paying me off. not just one guy.

unless you have a great read on the player. even then, it's still a guessing game.

low pkt pairs are not something to be played like a high pair, or mid pairs on a small card flop.

id want the extra player in for my odds to a set. this isnt HU table, this is a full table so you're showdown value is a little lower than SH or HU against an EP raise.

b

[harboral]

Sure, Joe, just get to the heart of the matter.

[Eric P]

The more i think about it a pre-flop fold seems pretty good, but this guy was raising with any 20 without a T, AJ KJ KQ JQ etc... thus he was raising a lot, i didn't re-raise pre-flop cause i'm probably folding to a high flop, unless it has an ace then, i'm check/raising flop and if he doesn't fold i'm done with the hand. But on a low flop like this i know he will bluff it all the way cause he hasbet until resitance was shown every hand.

So basically my thoughts were: If i 3-bet and he 4-bets i have to fold unless i hit a set. If i'm winning he will bluff at least 1 1/2 BB to me. If i'm losing it won't be too costly to lose the hand. On hands like the ones that flop i will be able to own him if i'm winning, and i will lose 2 bets or so when i'm losing.

[Eric P]

i didn't think he had a pair, unless it was a big one, he called with 77 and 44 and 88 earlier that i saw, granted those weren't in first position. but if he did i certainly wasn't going to lose my bankroll to him.

On the flop i think check/call is the only option.

Turn
if he has overcards: and i call then i am risking that he might not bet or call the river, but he might hit his card for free, however he will probably not call my raise.
If he has a pair: and i raise he might call/check the river if it is not a big pair (likely less that a 9) in which case i would check behind, and i lose the same as if i call him down. if he has a face card pair he probably 3-bets and i will have to let it go.

This still doesn't really clear it up for me, but thinking he probably won't bet the river i think i might have to raise here, on the off chance he calls with AK.

[bernie]

except even if a 'face' doesnt hit the flop, you're guessing on the turn or river if one hits. hoping to have a board go faceless so your 3s will be good is a lot to ask for.

b