Bad Play Turned Great Play Turned Awful Play

[Sir Limps Alot]

Early Position called with J 4 spades. Knew it was bad play but got impatient. Raised by mid position player then reraised by big blind due to the fact I was trapped I capped. Flop comes K /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif Im first to act and bet with 2 pair. Raised by Mid re raised by BB and I cap. Turn is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif Same action as before. River shoots blank. I know that I should not be in this hand in the first place but by the time I realized that Pot odds were to great to fold with two pair.

[BaronVonCP]

When did it turn into a great play?

[Sir Limps Alot]

Your right it was never a great play but from what I have seen 2 pair on the flop is decent. There was a flush draw and straight draw on the board. Would you have folded if you made the original mistake I made or would you never do such a thing?

[Ulysses]

A good way to make up for your mistake of limping in with that hand would have been to fold when the big blind made it 3 bets.

[Schneids]

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Knew it was bad play but got impatient. Raised by mid position player then reraised by big blind due to the fact I was trapped I capped.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear you get to play every hand in black jack.

[Sir Limps Alot]

I knew I would get crap for that hand and it is not my norm but I guess it was a hunch hand. What would you do after flop?

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
I knew I would get crap for that hand and it is not my norm but I guess it was a hunch hand. What would you do after flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, but let's just make it clear it's not good to go on hunch hands or to use that as an excuse. I'm guessing you're going to reply saying you don't normally -- however, this is just something to consider.

First, I'd call the 3-bet on the flop instead of capping.

Second, I would let go of the hand somewhere on the turn. Based on how you played the flop, and with your post leading me to believe the BB once again check/raised everyone on the turn, I would fold on the turn when it is 3 bets to me and I've put in one. Since you capped the flop, the BB rightly assumed you'd bet out again on the turn, and was once again able to check/raise both of you. I smell set.

[Ulysses]

I would fold on that board when I bet the turn and it gets raised and re-raised.

[BaronVonCP]

Given the fact that everyone involved in this hand put in a raise before the flop; And also with the flop action, which hands do you think are a possibilty for the other two players?

I guess AA and AK are possiblities.

But anyways, if I had made it that far with this hand, you have to slow down on the turn. you just capped the flop and they keep raising. Bottom two is far from a cinch.

But I think you broke a record with the most bets put in up to the river with J /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif .

Good show.

[Sir Limps Alot]

Well it turned out that Mid player had A 10 off and BB had king queen off. So MId was betting on gut shot straight and BB was betting on top pair after flop. I had both of them beat to the turn where I got smoked and rightfully so. MId landed a nice pot with the nuttz straight and BB had 2 pair Ks and Qs. If you have mid and low pair after flop what would be your winning percentage. I thought that it would be high but I dont know.

[Ulysses]

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If you have mid and low pair after flop what would be your winning percentage. I thought that it would be high but I dont know.

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Bottom two pair winning percentage = high.

Bottom two pair winning percentage when it is capped pre-flop, it is capped on the flop, and on the turn there is a possible straight, a possible flush, and three broadway cards on the board = very low.

[icepoker]

Ok you made a very loose call preflop and then when it gets back to you for two more bets you cap it! They gave every reason to fold, next time when you get impatient and make a bad call, fold when it gets back to you for two more.

[webiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
Well it turned out that Mid player had A 10 off and BB had king queen off. So MId was betting on gut shot straight and BB was betting on top pair after flop. I had both of them beat to the turn where I got smoked and rightfully so. MId landed a nice pot with the nuttz straight and BB had 2 pair Ks and Qs. If you have mid and low pair after flop what would be your winning percentage. I thought that it would be high but I dont know.

[/ QUOTE ]

In some cases it would be, but let me ask you, how many players would play AK - AT? How many would play KQ - KT? When you have a high straight or fl draws, there are too many people with possible hands that'll beat your low two pair.

If the flop came J 6 4 two suited, you would likely have a better chance of winning holding bottom pair as not as many people would play 5-7. If you had players sticking around after that kind of flop though, you would still need to worry about fl and str draws while you would only have 4 outs to improve your hand. Very low EV this hand. On this kind of hand I illustrated, I doubt a C/R would help you because you'd be in greater danger of giving a free card.

On your hand however, I agree that the C/R on the flop makes sense if you're out of position because you need to find a way to get players out of the pot so they don't draw out on you. That is very difficult to do with a single bet out of position and you suspect your opponents on top pair or even raising on a flush draw.

The odds of hitting 2 pair is about 49 to 1 last I read. Playing for a flush with Jxs, you gotta worry about overcards. I know I don't need to say this, but unless you're getting a free play in the blinds, you have to muck this hand everytime 'cause if it hits it can still cost you money.

[Joe Tall]

First you know to fold this preflop, so do it.

The action is a little screwed up on this hand but I think you've got the information you wanted in the replies here. You should only be playing Jxs in the blinds and not for a raise.

There are so many hands that have J4 dominated on a KJ4Q board.

I think this place is going to be good for you.

Peace,
JT