weak tight or just right?

[mike l.]

i have AhJh in the sb in a great 20-40 game. there are 5 limpers and i flat call. the bb checks. 7 of us.

the flop is As6s5c. i check, it's checked around to the button who is a loose and aggressive player. he bets, i checkraise, it's folded back around to the button and he thinks and calls. i bet the turn dark.

comments?

[Diplomat]

Hrrm. You are thinking weak/tight pre-flop?

Well, I'd raise pre-flop. I think the string attached to pokerbabe's latest hand sufficiently illustrates why. Calling is better than folding I guess.

The flop sounds about right.

The dark bet does not exactly sound weak/tight.

-Diplomat

[Clarkmeister]

I won't waste my breath about the preflop play. You know my opinion.

You played the flop and turn fine.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

mike--- Careful...., it's heresy to limp preflop with any big suited ace and doing so will have you relegated to the "Girly Galaxy". I think you played the hand fine, but exactly why do you bet in the dark? Do you find that people tend to fold or call when you do this?.

LGPG, with LG currently standing for "Limp Good" I think. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Happy Holidays,
Babe /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[mike l.]

i know about preflop. call me girly but i just cant stand investing an extra $30 when i know i need to flop just right and still survive 6 players out of position. plus any one of these limpers is perfectly capable of limping for no good reason w/ AK, AQ, AA-JJ, etc.

i felt like the flop may have been weak tight. do i really want to checkraise and try to clear everyone out on this flop? my sense is that better players (meaning not necessarily any of you) try to build a pot here w/ pair of aces strong kicker.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

I am not a great fan of multiway pots when I only have one pair. I like your play and I can't imagine why you question yourself here.

Babe :heart

[astroglide]

i would have raised preflop, but assuming i didn't, i wouldn't bet the turn dark. whatever slim chance there was of a flush draw raising you on an unimproved turn is reduced to 0, and you're much more likely to force out a non-ace pair with it.

[Diplomat]

Yeah, I figured you might have been asking something like that. I'd prefer to cut down the field when there are six opponents. With less I might try to squeeze a few more bets in, but here I'm just trying to win the pot.

-Diplomat

[mike l.]

the button would simply never not 3 bet a flush draw or hand that had me beat already on that flop. in other words he probably had a naked pair of 6s or a gutshot draw. or nothing. and yes he would sometimes call my flop checkraise w/ nothing. so maybe i shouldnt have bet the turn and give him some rope instead?

[mikelow]

I don't know how a checkraise and a dark turn bet can be weak-tight. I see you're doing a lot of dark betting.

I rarely bet dark, but is my game missing this weapon?

[astroglide]

yeah. i would think a shaky bet as opposed to a dark bet a better way of getting him to put money in with the worst of it. if he'll bet anything, sure, check it. i wouldn't if there's a decent chance he'd take a free card, though.

i do appreciate a good dark bet, but i don't think this is the place.

[mike l.]

"I rarely bet dark, but is my game missing this weapon?"

yes. it kicks ass.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
"I rarely bet dark, but is my game missing this weapon?"

yes. it kicks ass.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would love to hear a reasonable explanation of how betting in the dark can be good.

[mike l.]

it's been mentioned before. players tend to call more and raise less. it also works as a bit of a lie detector, but when they raise you it is oftentimes merely out of spite and not because they are strong.

it also warns players that when they get involved in a hand with you, you will tend to have something so strong that you are not afraid to bet streets dark and that they will not be looking at getting a bunch of free cards.

there's more: it gives added strength to your checkraises. on the times that you do check (in order to raise) they will figure you are just giving up or else why wouldnt you bet dark like you normally do? so then when you checkraise they will really be confused and scared. so now your checkraise bluffs will have more power!

and there's one more reason: when you bet the flop dark you then free yourself up to not even look at the flop. to just watch your opponent's faces and see how they react to those first few precious seconds of the flop being spread. and a lot of times they will then proceed to check after you, not realising you have already bet. very valuable!

the bottom line is try and it and you will start to see what a powerful tool it can be in a game where aggression and position are so important.

[mike l.]

"if he'll bet anything, sure, check it. i wouldn't if there's a decent chance he'd take a free card, though."

he's very happy to take free cards and im not sure i wanted to give him one. so i had sort of decided to just go ahead and bet in the split second before the turn was dealt.

in other words i guess this just one of those decisions that remains up in the air. im more concerned with the flop and preflop play.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
i felt like the flop may have been weak tight. do i really want to checkraise and try to clear everyone out on this flop? my sense is that better players (meaning not necessarily any of you) try to build a pot here w/ pair of aces strong kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]
7 players PF means the pot size is already decent enough. Don't let them catch your good -- but not great -- hand.

[andyfox]

"Limp? You limp? I raise. Limpers deserved to be punished."

He is of course correct. Never mind that the board ended up Q-T-7-J-J and Rick had A-K and the limper had 7-7. First hand of the day, we had all just started the game.

Limpers do deserve punishment.

I'm not sure about blind bettors. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[elysium]

hi mike
well played.