haven't posted in a while. online hand.

[astroglide]

folds around to mp who calls, i raise next in with QQ. big blind and limper call, 3 to the flop for 2 bets.

flop is 34J two-tone. big blind checks, limper bets, i call, big blind calls.

turn is an offsuit K. big blind checks, limper bets, i raise, big blind 3bets, limper calls, i fold.

not that interesting i guess, i'll find some more though /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[nykenny]

u played terrible. and u surely know what your mistake was.

kenny

[astroglide]

i disagree that i played terribly, and i do not know what mistake to which you might be referring

[Depraved]

QQ is more vulnerable than KK or AA - I'd raise the flop. No need to keep the big blind around...

I mean, it's not like the pot's so big he would only fold to two BIG bets. And, it's not like your hand is so much of a lock you want to slowplay. Assuming the limper calls the raise (and the big blinds folds) you get the same amount of money in the pot with one less opponent.

[BaronVonCP]

Maybe not raising the flop, or maybe raising the turn when the overcard came.

[astroglide]

presuming one person has a king and another has an ace, and there were no other ones dealt out (not terribly likely) there are still only 6 of them combined in the deck.

online players are generally loose and terrible callers, and this hand is no exception. i would be completely unsurprised to have flopped middle/bottom pair or a hand like ace ten/ace jack to call 2 cold on the turn with a gutshot.

[Gabe]

You should raise the flop. The BB will have to call two cold to continue.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe not raising the flop, or maybe raising the turn when the overcard came.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's it.

kenny

[nykenny]

u should have raised the flop. if BB had a set or two-pair he would come and you would be beat anyway. but that doesn't mean u shouldn't have raised flop.

kenny

[astroglide]

uh, i guess it doesn't appear to all of you that the AUTOMATIC way to play this hand is to raise the flop. i'm aware of that, i considered it, and i believe raising the turn is a superior play.

there are up to 6 overcards in the entire deck that can harm me, and these are the type of opponents that will call 2 cold on the turn with any piece of the flop.

raising when the king drops, with position, ensures that i can fold without reservation to a 3bet and maximizes my profit in terms of their cold calling. furthermore, even if i'm called in both places i can still check down the river unimproved. anything less than ace king (and even 2 pair a majority of the time) will check to me on the end.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
raising when the king drops, with position, ensures that i can fold without reservation to a 3bet

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd think that with decent, thinking opponents. But you already figure these guys will call 2 cold on the turn with just a small piece. If they are so bad of players what do they need to 3 bet the turn with?

What do you put the limper on anyway? He bet the flop. Did the K help him? Can he really beat QQ? With your decription of these players it sounds hard to put this guy on anything?

With this kind of opponent I'd rather take charge earlier and then slow down if he gets real aggressive and depending on just how far he goes with crap which hopefully I have observed in previous hands.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
You'd think that with decent, thinking opponents. But you already figure these guys will call 2 cold on the turn with just a small piece. If they are so bad of players what do they need to 3 bet the turn with?

[/ QUOTE ]
this is the difference between loose-passive and loose-aggressive play.

i didn't put either of them on anything until the blind 3bet.

[andyfox]

There may be only six overcards that can harm you, but there may be a bunch of undercards that can harm you too. I prefer to raise the flop. Now if a king (or ace) comes, they might check to me and I have the option of betting or taking a free card.

I'd be more inclined to consider a call on the flop with pocket kings or aces.

[elysium]

hi astro
it's not bad astro. there is the option of calling and calling the check-raise. the thinking here is that this gives you an opportunity to show grit. this may sound a little bizarre, but this is precisely the type of hand that has slightly less than fair chances of being in the lead when check-raised against, so is in a negative situation on paper, but actually has good implied value when shown down against a stronger hand in this type situation when the pair of K's is so likely. after your opponent shows down his K pair, in retrospect it seems so obvious given the check-raise. that factor,as the table settles in for the next hand and considers what just took place in this hand, works very much to your advantage because they will not take shots at you in later hands. so the combined possibility of being ahead AND stopping shots from being taken make calling in this situation the correct choice followed by calling the check-raise. in other words, you should welcome these type of calling opportunities in this specific situation and not raise yourself out of them. another would be TT with a J on board against 2 opponents but not 99 with a T on board because now an over-pair is too likely. also watch out for JJ with a Q on. you don't like showing grit here because the Q or over-pair is too likely.