09-23-2001, 12:28 AM
Jim Brier and I are on distinctly different sides of a debate in a Medium Stakes topic called "brierish type laydown? from me?"
So I'd like some thoughts about the general strategic ideas of how to play the flop and beyond when you've got an overpair and the flop has a medium pair, draw (either flush or straight), and a face card smaller than your overpair on it.
Here's the situation:
You've got a big pair (AA, KK, or QQ) and have raised pre-flop and gotten a few callers (3-5) but no re-raisers.
The flop is F, m, m
where F is a face card/Ten smaller than your pair
and
m is a medium card (let's say 5 through 9)
Example 1: If you hold KcKs, the flop could be Qd,6d,6h
Example 2: Or if you hold AA, the flop could be Tc,9s,9d
There's lots of action on the flop. Either you've bet from early postion and been raised and re-raised. Or, the flop has been bet and raised before it gets to you in late position.
In Example 1, you could be up against trip 6s, Queens-up, and a Diamond flush draw.
In Example 2, you could be up against trip 9s, Tens-up, and a straight draw.
Here's a few things I want to know (acknowledging that we have no knowledge of our opponents since this is hypothetical):
1. Statistically, how often do you have the best hand? Or more simply, how often has somebody flopped trips?
2. With several callers to your pre-flop raise, is there enough money in the pot to chase if you "suspect" (but aren't sure) one of the flop bettors/raisers has trips.
3. Is the size of the medium pair important? Is someone more likely to have trip 9s in Example 2 than trip 6s in Example 1?
4. Are you definitley seeing the turn card regardless of the flop action?
If I haven't adequately described the scenario, I think reading the Medium Stakes topic and then coming back here should clarify things.
So I'd like some thoughts about the general strategic ideas of how to play the flop and beyond when you've got an overpair and the flop has a medium pair, draw (either flush or straight), and a face card smaller than your overpair on it.
Here's the situation:
You've got a big pair (AA, KK, or QQ) and have raised pre-flop and gotten a few callers (3-5) but no re-raisers.
The flop is F, m, m
where F is a face card/Ten smaller than your pair
and
m is a medium card (let's say 5 through 9)
Example 1: If you hold KcKs, the flop could be Qd,6d,6h
Example 2: Or if you hold AA, the flop could be Tc,9s,9d
There's lots of action on the flop. Either you've bet from early postion and been raised and re-raised. Or, the flop has been bet and raised before it gets to you in late position.
In Example 1, you could be up against trip 6s, Queens-up, and a Diamond flush draw.
In Example 2, you could be up against trip 9s, Tens-up, and a straight draw.
Here's a few things I want to know (acknowledging that we have no knowledge of our opponents since this is hypothetical):
1. Statistically, how often do you have the best hand? Or more simply, how often has somebody flopped trips?
2. With several callers to your pre-flop raise, is there enough money in the pot to chase if you "suspect" (but aren't sure) one of the flop bettors/raisers has trips.
3. Is the size of the medium pair important? Is someone more likely to have trip 9s in Example 2 than trip 6s in Example 1?
4. Are you definitley seeing the turn card regardless of the flop action?
If I haven't adequately described the scenario, I think reading the Medium Stakes topic and then coming back here should clarify things.