Asian Players

[slim]

I don't know why there is no "reply " button, so I am starting a new post in response to the other guy who posted about LAG Asian players.

Why is everybody soooooooooooo politically correct all the time!!!! I agree with everything the original poster says. I am asian so call me racist against myself. IN GENERAL, asian people love to gamble more compared to other races. I live in Toronto and there are buses that go to Chinese malls and condos to pick up Asian gamblers and takes them to the casino everyday. The buses are packed. Whenever I go to casino, 50% of the people in there playing are Asian but there certainly aren't 50% asian population in Toronto. Why do they have Chinese singers from Hong Kong come to Casino's to perform? When is the last time you saw them import a Russian or East Indian performer to perform at a casino to cater to Russian or Indian clients? Why is there always a Cnhinese Noodle bar at casinos? Do they have buses that pick up Black clients from Black neighborhoods? NO! Why? Because the bus would be empty! I've been to Foxwoods and I remember seeing hords of Asians there and I bet you most don't live in Connecticut. Asians love to gamble!!! What's wrong with saying that??? I don't know the reason, and I don't care, it's the truth. It isn't racist to point out stereotypes. And I know you tree huggers won't like this either....STEREOTYPES are IN GENERAL, TRUE!!!! Why is it wrong to point them out? AS long as you don't hate someone or treat them poorly bc of their culture, it's not racist.

Now back to the original poster observation. I notice the same thing about Vietnamese players.....LAGGY.....does it make me racist for noticing and agreeing with him? NO!Gee let's see off the top of my head, Scotty Nguyen, Tuan Le, John Phan, Meng the Master,David Pham,Mimi Tran .....I would say they're pretty loose-aggressive no? Can you name me the same number of top Vietnamese players who have a rep for being tight and conservative? DO I hate Vietnamese players bc they're Vietnamese?? NO!! If I am new to a table, and I see a Vietnamese player who I never saw before, will I play him differently than an old white guy who I never saw before? YOU BET I would! I guess that's racist too?

ANd you guys will love this one too.....Do I think Asians are better poker players thatn any other race? PRobably! I have no trouble saying that.I remember the ladies WSOP 2004(?) 10 players at final table.....3 or 4 were Asian and guess who were the final 4? If you look at the proportion of Asian players vs any other race who make it to final tables, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Asians have a much higher %. Is the best Asian player in the world better than the best white player? I don't think so but that's debateable. Are Blacks better at Basketball and football than Asians? You're damn right they are. Do they run faster? YES. Are men taller and stronger than women in general? Yes!
Please understand, I am NOT saying ASians are better or smarter or whatever..... I am saying they tend to play a certain style and they tend to do well for whatever reason. I don't care why, I just know it is a true generalisation.

Why is it nobody ever flames somebody for saying an old white guy is a rock but yet it's so worng to say Vietnamese players are Laggy? I just can't stand politcal correctness.....it's NOT REALISTIC.

[SheridanCat]

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STEREOTYPES are IN GENERAL, TRUE!!!!

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No, in fact, they are not true. In general. Stereotypes are specific traits abstracted into the general. These specific traits are often very obvious and exaggerated, thus they are easy to see. They stand out and feed the human need to find patterns where there are none.

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I just can't stand politcal correctness.....it's NOT REALISTIC.

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Political correctness is a dumb phrase. How about respect and consideration? How about judging people based on facts and actual interactions rather than some broad notion of "what they are". The problem with using stereotypes to judge is that people will often surprise you.

Regards,

T

[slim]

Stereotypes are not true, in general??? Come on, be serious. I don't want to offend anyone so I'll stereotype myself. I am Chinese. I bet I eat more rice than the typical white or black person. I am skinny, no matter how much I work out, I can't gain much weight. ON AVERAGE, is a Chinese person not skinnier than a white/black person?
Why is it wrong to have preconceived notions on someone based on culture if you don't know them? I am not saying to dislike them or ridicule them b4 u know them,....I am saying, if I am at a poker table and I play against people I don't know, I have an idea of how they play by the way they look, dress, their race....whatever. It might not be correct, but it is something to go by until proven otherwise. There is nothing wrong with that. Racism, is when you treat someone poorly because of their race and their culture, not just bc u think someone is PROBABLY better or worse at something because of the tendencies of their race. It's all statistics.....if a high % of a certain race has a certain attribute, I will likely assume someone I just met of that race MAY likely have that attribute too. I don't dislike them, but I will have a preconceived notion of them.
If you were in an alley way late at night, would u rather run into a pack of pit bulls or poodles, even though u never met either of those specific dogs before?

[Kaeser]

I'm at work so I make a long reply but I'd just like to say it's important not to confuse a "stereotype", with an "observed trait".

[FrankStallone]

If more asian people gamble in your opinion than other races, then was it a suprise that the ladies tourny final table had more asian women than others. I would say the best poker players are Jewish. Just not as many jews running around the cardrooms seeing bands from bangcock. They are all listing to you know who..

[slim]

Can someone please deinfe "stereotype"? In my mind, it means a characteristic or trait that is more common in a certain type of person (race,sex, religion etc) than another person of different race, sex etc.
It may not be the dictionary definition, but I am sure that it is how most people define it. Stereotype,observed trait, whatever u want to call it, is true in most cases. If that's all u have to go by at a poker table or anywhere else in life, nothing wrong with it, as long as u don't force it on someone who happens not to have that trait that is common to their race or sex or whatever.
I don't believe ANYONE who says they don't have preconceived nothings about another person. I think it is pretty much impossible to not think anything about someone they just met. You might not act on the thoughts but it crosses ur mind to some degree. Everyday is filled with stereotypes and preconceived notions......if u see a guy on the bus in a business suit and a briefcase, u think he is some kind of business/professional person........but he may be a garbage man, who knows. If you see a teenager working at McDonalds, u think he's a student........but he may be a multi-millionaire who happens to volunteer at McDonalds......anything is possible but everybody has first impressions and there's nothing wrong with that.

[slim]

Well, who knows.....my point is not that Asians are better.....they just love to gamble and are quite good at it. And abouit the ladies final table.....from what i remmeber, whatever number of asian women made the final table (3 or 4 cant remember) , they were the only ones left standing at then end. That's pretty impressive. Jewish players might be better but they are not "visible" minorities so I wouldn't know if a player was Jewish or not.

[MikeSmith]

Id say stereotypes are correct the majority of the time, there are of course exceptions. Stereotypes ring true the highest percentage of the time, i wouldnt say they are true but i wouldnt say they are false either.

[slim]

Bingo, MOST of the time.......so, at a poker table, there is no difference when u read a player based on their race(assuming u just met them), versus using a tell such as shaky hand when betting or looking away when someone has a strong hand......it is a clue.....u can choose to use it or ignore it.

How do things become stereotypes if they aren't mostly true??? Do people make things up out of the blue? "uh gee, I'm going to make up a stereotype about Asians, they love driving Domestic pick-up trucks....let's see if that sticks"

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When is the last time you saw them import a Russian or East Indian performer to perform at a casino to cater to Russian or Indian clients?

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Precisely the reason I don't go to Toronto to play poker.

[jedi]

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IN GENERAL, asian people love to gamble more compared to other races.

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Don't confuse culture with race. While the two are very closely correlated, it's not equivalent, especially in today's melting pot.

[slim]

Well, culture vs race is splitting hairs bc the only people who have the exact same culture as Vietnamese people are Vietnamese people. SO yes, it's possible that a white person could be born in Vietnam and grow up there and love gambling......is it culture or race? It makes no difference to me......I am still going to stereotype people, on purpose or not.......I have first impressions of people I first meet.

[MCS]

The other post was stupid. Period. That's why he got blasted. You can ask cultural questions in a respectful way, and he didn't.

If you post non-idiotic things, you will get good responses.

As for being all anti-political-correctness, give it up already. That stance is meaningless. Address the issue at hand rather than taking this general cowboy attitude. No one thinks you're edgy or honest because you're okay with ridiculous nonsensical crap. I hate political correctness too, and that doesn't mean I tolerate foolishness.

this is the greatest post ever made....

[etizzle]

i agree with everything you said. Except asian people are smarter on average. This is quite obvious (to me).

And I am white.

[Big Limpin']

I agree with all you said. And i'm from Vancouver, so if you have 50% asian in your casinos, we have 75% im sure. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

1) Is stereotyping bad/evil/rude/disrespectful...??? Im most cases, no, and it should be quite obvious when you are out of line. If you were to discriminate, or deny basic rights based on race, thats one thing, but merely having a notion of someone (until you find otherwise) is about as innocent as you can get.
BAD: "you cant come into my convienience store, because you are [insert race], and alot of robbers are your race"
FINE: "i need help with my homwork, and you are [insert smart race], can you help"

2) Asians, and the mentioned stereotypes.
Heres one guy who will vouch for you guys being both gambooly and good with math stuff, in general. ANd i speak from expierience. Are all asians smart? of course not. Are they all gambooly? Of course not. But more than whites, on average, of that i am sure.

[Kanchi]

My dad's side is Chinese and they love to gamble, my mom is Nam and she HATES any form of gambling. I know it can be minus EV but I don't like playing any hand with a 4 in it.

I've never been to any Casino's except Macau, do you know when the next time a singer is going to be coming to Niagra?

[slim]

that example is a little insulting , no? "I need help with homework, you are Chinese, can you help?" hahahahahaha.....if I was not doing so well in school and I am Chinese, I would think that was kinda insulting but I get ur point.

[slim]

I don't know if Asians are smarter....but we tend to do better in school. I think that's because of culture more than genetics. Our parents beat it into our heads that school is the most impprtant thing. It's also a pride thing for the parents so they can tell their friends that their child goes to Harvard and is going to be a surgeon.
White parents, on the other hand, say things like " as long as my son is happy, he can do what he wants"

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I don't know if Asians are smarter....but we tend to do better in school. I think that's because of culture more than genetics. Our parents beat it into our heads that school is the most impprtant thing. It's also a pride thing for the parents so they can tell their friends that their child goes to Harvard and is going to be a surgeon.
White parents, on the other hand, say things like " as long as my son is happy, he can do what he wants"

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this a very good point
amen