My biggest leak. Not folding

[Cancuk]

No reads on BB.
CO is terrible, he doesn't protect my hand. He was being a complete maniaclag earlier, but he's burnt about 40BB's already and is now a passive station who goes to the river on every hand no matter what he has. Buddy list.

PP 5/10 6 handed.

Hero has Q /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

CO limps, Button limps, Hero compleates, BB raises, all call.

Flop: J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero bets, BB raises, CO calls, button folds, hero calls.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, BB bets, Co calls, Hero calls.

River: 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero checks, BB bets, Co calls, Hero calls.

Thoughts? Standard? Fold somewhere?
I think i pay off my top pair way to much.

is it normal to call the preflop raise with QJo?

i think your up against a set, but c/c doesn't seem so bad. tough hand.

[kapw7]

If CO is that passive, why don't you 3-bet the flop. The rest of the hand, I cannot fold either without reads on BB, so I'm interested to see other replies.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
is it normal to call the preflop raise with QJo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it normal to fold 7:1 pot odds?

[I am fish]

It is in cases like this. Hero did not cold call a raise. He was calling a single bet back to him where he was closing the action. He was getting 7 to 1 odds, and he will almost always have more equity than that. Standard.

You are getting what... 12:1 on the river? I don't think I could fold against an unknown and a CO stuck in call-down mode.

In the same situation with unknown future action, anyone like leading the turn instead? Calling if raised and check-folding unimproved on the river maybe? Costs the same two big bets but you get another chance to drive CO out, or pay even more with who knows what, plus no free card for the BB.

[Cancuk]

I guess I could three bet the flop. But now you have great odds to call to the river w/ your five outs, and by the river, assuming the flop is capped and CO calls the whole way (which he would) theres 15 BB's in the pot. What now? You spewed more. I almost like the compleatly passive line, check calling the whole way, and donking the river and folding to a raise.

For "dontforgetlol", I didn't CC, I compleated from the SB, and the BB raised.

i would c/r the flop, or if i lead than 3 bet, when you just called i thought you are going for c/r on the river /images/graemlins/confused.gif
i play my top pairs much more agressivly

[Cancuk]

When an unknown raises three players from the BB I would guess his range is something like this:

Ajo+, 10/10 +, KQo+.

I feel three betting the flop is spewing, inless your folding the turn UI if it gets capped, which I don't like since you're now getting 12:1 to call the turn. I think if you put in any more than 4 BB's into this hand w/out improving, you're being too aggressive w/out a read.

The flop looks perfect to go for a c-r/. If I check and it comes back two to me, I could fold. If I c-r and BB reraises, I could fold the turn UI. If he calls the c-r, I lead the turn.

As played, if all you really know about BB is how he played this hand and that you have an overcaller (even a terrible one), I think I'll fold the river. If CO had folded, I'd call.

the preflop raiser acts right after him, how could he c/r?

[kapw7]

I like the flop 3-bet for 3 reasons:
1. CO will put bets in with nearly anything
2. Position: If we get capped or get bet on the turn (stop'n'go) then we can let go since I doubt we are ahead or have 5 outs here. Our J is dominated our Q outs are tainted (we might be against overpair / 2 pair etc).
3. Flop bet is cheaper

The downside is that we can be C-Red on the turn and thus pay 1 more BB.

[Cancuk]

[ QUOTE ]
the preflop raiser acts right after him, how could he c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

check. then after he bets. raise.

quite simple really.

you can't c/r for odds if he's to your left. unless it's just for value instead, that's different. please be more clear.

[Cancuk]

[ QUOTE ]

If we get capped or get bet on the turn (stop'n'go) then we can let go since I doubt we are ahead or have 5 outs here. Our J is dominated our Q outs are tainted (we might be against overpair / 2 pair etc).


[/ QUOTE ]

I think theres a pretty good chance our five outs are good here if he caps. AA, KK, QQ, AJ are the hands that would make sense for a cap. QQ we have two outs and AJ we have three outs. Theres 6 combinations of AA, 6 combinations of KK, 3 combinations of QQ, and 8 combinations of AJ. So, mathematically speaking, theres a better chance of him having AA or KK (12) where we have 5 outs than QQ or AJ (11) where we have 3 or 2 outs. Theres also a better chance of him raising AA, KK, or QQ from the SB than AJo and theres no legit hands that he would raise from the BB in a multiway pot that would creat two pair.

I didn't add JJ as a hand because I think he would wait until the turn to raise to try and get a bet from the button, because he knows that the CO is coming along no matter what. maybe i'm giving him too much credit?

If i made mistakes, i'm sorry...it's early..i haven't slept yet, I think i may be a degenerate.

[Cancuk]

[ QUOTE ]
you can't c/r for odds if he's to your left. unless it's just for value instead, that's different. please be more clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r for value.
how do you c/r someone you have position on?

[2+2 wannabe]

I like the flop c/r, bet, bet line

If you get 3-bet on the flop you can probably fold the turn UI (in this protected pot)

If you get raised along the way you can probably fold

i think you played it fine. six person you have to willing to play. 10 person might change things though.

if one of your opponents hit something unlikely so be it. a river fold would be terrible

pre-flop, i was wondering about raising. QJo is pretty good at shorthanded table. although i probably wouldn't raise.

calling the raise for one bet is fine. folding that would be crazy.

some of the literature says play second pair like top pair in six man. and you had top pair.

you generally played it fine. if it was 10 player, i might cahnge my opinion.

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
you can't c/r for odds if he's to your left. unless it's just for value instead, that's different. please be more clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am with you, the pot is too big to be inflating it even further with a marginal top pair. I would bet the flop just like OP did

[mtdoak]

Folding QJo getting 7-1 in a 6 max game would be a horrible, horrible, mistake.

[waffle]

i like the way you played pf and the flop. co's call of 2 is worrisome, but you have a read on him, so it's nothing to worry about. on the river, we just have to hope that BB is still betting with missed overcards or a PP smaller than JJ. do you think this is happening enough?

I think I c/r the flop and bet the turn if called, fold UI if three-bet.

The way you played it however makes me want to bet/fold the river.

[Cancuk]

[ QUOTE ]
i like the way you played pf and the flop. co's call of 2 is worrisome, but you have a read on him, so it's nothing to worry about. on the river, we just have to hope that BB is still betting with missed overcards or a PP smaller than JJ. do you think this is happening enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

CO's call isn't worrisome at all.
I think i lose here 90+ %...thats why i posted it...
do you just take it to the river then fold the river UI? I'm so bad at that.

i never said to fold.