Got lucky or good play?

[Roy6]

LP lineup. I wonder if I should do this more.

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4.00 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.00 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, CO folds.

River: (7.00 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 8.00 BB.

[aba20]

I fold the flop, very small pot and not closing the action.

[B Dids]

Raise preflop, bet from then on. AT least you're good at rivering.

Include better reads in your posts.

[Stinkybeaver]

I'm not raising this preflop, but I don't mind the flop peel and folding the turn UI. After all you have two overcards and two backdoor draws it can't be that bad.

If we attain something like 4 outs for the overs since some could be tainted and 3 outs for the draws thats 7 outs and even though it's a smallish pot theres still two betting rounds to go so theres some implied odds left inthere.

I like it.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop, bet from then on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before I read the replies, I was going to ask if anyone raised this preflop. I am glad to know you do. I am sure flawless_victory must. I havn't usually, but I think I will start to.

Given the way he played, do you bet the river UI? I'm guessing no vs 2 opponents. What about vs only one?

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold the flop, very small pot and not closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop peel is fine. You are getting 6:1, and BB usually is not raising here. You have 3 outs from your backdoors, plus another 3-5 or so from your overs. That is about 7 outs, which, including implied odds, is plenty.

[ArturiusX]

Wp.

[wackjob]

standard PF raise for me as well. i think I would rather try for a c/r on the turn knowing that a free card isn't bad.

[ArturiusX]

Umm, we're never ever getting the free card here, never folding anyone, and alwas getting called down by a pair.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
i think I would rather try for a c/r on the turn knowing that a free card isn't bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. If our flop agressor bets and the CO calls, then our check raise is most likely for value. If the CO folds, then our check raise has way more folding equity then the turn lead, not to mention having plenty of outs in case he doesn't fold.

[ArturiusX]

No ones folding a pair, they probably have better draws then us, and we may lose almost all of our outs depending on the turn card.

I don't think this is a good spot to try for a small pot.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
No ones folding a pair

[/ QUOTE ]

You call down with a 9 or a weak Q against the turn check raise?


[ QUOTE ]
they probably have better draws then us

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think that?


[ QUOTE ]
and we may lose almost all of our outs depending on the turn card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought we were talking about action on the turn... If not, I think we are on different pages here.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is a good spot to try for a small pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have about 15 or more outs here.

Edit: I see where the confusion is comming from. I said:

[ QUOTE ]
If our flop agressor bets

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant UTG, but I forgot what position the guy was actually in. This was in response to wackjob saying we should check raise the turn, and I was agreeing with him. I meant "If our flop agressor bets again on the turn."

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
Umm, we're never ever getting the free card here, never folding anyone, and alwas getting called down by a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Now I am just confused. We rarely get the freecard, but it happens. I think wackjob was saying that a free card isn't bad, in fact it is good if it happens.

We are folding people somewhat often. A turn check raise is danger, and people with weak pairs can fold. They don't even have to fold that often, as we have huge equity with our straight draw/flush draw/ and possible (although not all that likely) pair draw.

[wackjob]

there are too many nevers and always in your post Arturius. Until the hand is played out we can never be sure who will call for even 4 bets with bottom pair and who might fold TP for a check raise. yes there are lots of times we can make generalizations, but to think certain plays don't have value because they may not usually work is absurd.

[Entity]

I fold the flop.

[ArturiusX]

I'll clarify; by the size of the pot, it'll never be correct to try for a check-raise, because we're sticking 2 players in the middle on a draw friendly board.

I'd love to be able to fold guys like this out often with a raise, but its probably not going to happen on this board.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop, bet from then on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before I read the replies, I was going to ask if anyone raised this preflop. I am glad to know you do. I am sure flawless_victory must.

[/ QUOTE ]
dude, i cold threebet this.

I like it. Call on the flop is the only thing I might question. I like your bet on the turn. Good bet on the river.