I swear I'm not a calling station

[xorbie]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($101.80)
SB ($161.95)
BB ($99.90)
UTG ($33.45)
MP ($61.74)
CO ($410.01)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2</font>, MP calls $2, CO calls $2, Hero calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($10.50) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $2</font>, MP calls $2, CO folds, Hero calls $2, BB folds.

Turn: ($16.50) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $5</font>, MP folds, Hero calls $5.

River: ($26.50) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $10</font>, Hero calls $10.

Final Pot: $46.50

Last hand of the night I swear. Villain is 45/13, bit of a donkey. I saw him 3-bet all in with K6 on a K high flop earlier, so he obviously over values his hands. I also saw him minbet two streets earlier with NPND after limping in with J6s and then minbetting again on the river when he hit a J. That's about it for reads.

[amoeba]

yeah, you don't know if he is doing the " I am slowplaying a 7" or the "let me see next street cheaply" underbet.

looking at the amounts though I would lean towards the latter.

[mason55]

Your title weaves a web of lies and deceit.

I am curious about this hand because I find myself doing this occasionally in this basic situation. I feel so dirty but man... Sometimes if this is wrong, I don't want to be right.

[yvesaint]

mmmm i know youre gonna hate this but fold pre-flop

yes it's a mini-raise, but i just dont see 42s being +EV to play in any sort of pot, multiway, heads up, etc. etc.

that being said, just fold the river. UTG is short-stacked, and i really dont think you want to be going to showdown with 2s against a short-stacked donk. hes only got 12 left in his stack right now. he also min-raised UTG. his hand range is probably any pocket pair, and anything that looks pretty.

and a lot of that hand range beats you on this board.

there's a lot of better places to take these short stacks out. overpairs work. TPTK works. in fact, TPGK is probably good to stack him too.

Yah my gut reaction was like "this is horrible"

but then i was like, well.... maybe..

dunno about preflop thought, pretty marginal

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]

mmmm i know youre gonna hate this but fold pre-flop


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you're right about me hating it, but also right that's its probably -EV. I just /images/graemlins/heart.gif my button, and will defend it vociferously.

[Bukem_]

This is 100% fish hand and you know it.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, you're right about me hating it, but also right that's its probably -EV. I just /images/graemlins/heart.gif my button, and will defend it vociferously.

[/ QUOTE ]

if it is -EV though, it's very marginally -EV. the only problem is with calling pre-flop with 42s, you tend to talk yourself into continuing post-flop with hands like this.

pre-flop is just personal discretion, i dont find it to be a huge important part of the game (especially with deeper stacks)

if youre a good player, yes, you can open up more pre-flop, but i think calling this down like this is spewing.

[xorbie]

I think the river is maybe -EV, maaaaybe. Turn and flop no way. I have odds on my flush draw alone.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the river is maybe -EV, maaaaybe. Turn and flop no way. I have odds on my flush draw alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, looking at this slightly more sober, I think you are always beat on the river unless you have seen villain fir a third barrel. The thing is, most people will fire a third barrel more than half pot. I think that you're losing way more often than 3.5:1. The rest of the hand is fine and I call this preflop all every time.

[xorbie]

Given previous hands I have seen villain in, he doesn't strike you as borderline retarded?

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are always beat on the river unless you have seen villain fir a third barrel.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't this is necessarily the case. Fish will frequently make these weak leads with flush draws, straight draws, missed overcards on flop and turn as a weak lead and then bluff a missed draw on the river. I see it all the time. I call here too.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
Given previous hands I have seen villain in, he doesn't strike you as borderline retarded?

[/ QUOTE ]

From your basic reads, it looks like he just bets based on the perceived strength of his hand. Min-bet = nothing. Sine the only thing you beat is ace high and he is betting more than min-bets I give him credit for something that beats ducks. This looks like the stereotypical play from a donkey who has a 3 and is scared. Maybe 5's or 6's. Without more hands against this guy I just can't feel comfortable calling the river.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you are always beat on the river unless you have seen villain fir a third barrel.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't this is necessarily the case. Fish will frequently make these weak leads with flush draws, straight draws, missed overcards on flop and turn as a weak lead and then bluff a missed draw on the river. I see it all the time. I call here too.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point was that there's only a certain class of fish who make this weak bluff on the river, whether or not they were drawing the whole time. If I know it's this kind of fish I make the call all day. Otherwise I think the river is a default fold. It looks way too much like a mediocre hand. The problem is that any mediocre hand beats hero's hand. If villain has shown the ability to lay down a hand I think I turn raise is good, otherwise a river fold seems warranted as a default. Again, with a read this can turn into an easy call. Two orbits does not make a good read.

[xorbie]

I dunno. As it happened he had K9/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Honestly I think his slight increase in betsize seemed to me to be a "pls fold" and that he woudlda bet stronger with anything good. Getting 3.5:1 I only need to like 22% on the river, and it's (a) good to see what he has and (b) good metagame if I do win because there's nothing like a good calling station image for getting retards to "value bet" shitty hands.

[mason55]

nh. Maybe I haven't spent enough time at 100NL but these look like donkey value bets with a 7 to me. This would be one of those hands where I would say "man, this is slightly -ev but I made it to the river I might as well take a shot by calling" and [censored] my pants when I won. I still think he has you beat more than 23%, you calling station /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I do think it's good for your image to call these small bets and show down your garbage.

[xorbie]

Yeah plus after the hand I typed "pwned" into the chatbox which was funny, and then I think I pwned the rest of the table anally but probably got sucked out on and lost all my money and broke even cuz poker sucks.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah plus after the hand I typed "pwned" into the chatbox which was funny, and then I think I pwned the rest of the table anally but probably got sucked out on and lost all my money and broke even cuz poker sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing makes me feel better than typing "pwned" after I suck out.

You &lt;&gt;&lt;.