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Nightbrace
10-17-2005, 05:55 PM
BB is very loose, very aggressive, stats are 56/26/5 after 86 hands. Is check-raising the turn ok here?
Comments on all streets appreciated.

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Preflop: Nightbrace is SB with As, Td.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Nightbrace raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 6d, 9h, 5s <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Nightbrace bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) Ah <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Nightbrace checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Nightbrace raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Nightbrace calls.

River: (9 BB) 3d <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Nightbrace bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Nightbrace calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB
10-17-2005, 06:07 PM
I would just bet the turn and call a raise. Then check call the river. But I didnt sit at the table.
milesdyson
10-17-2005, 06:13 PM
your question makes no sense, and your turn/river play is inconsistent.
bottomset
10-17-2005, 06:14 PM
I don't get the river at all
Nightbrace
10-17-2005, 06:18 PM
He bets and raises with anything, in this case, 24/
10-17-2005, 06:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He bets and raises with anything, in this case, 24/

[/ QUOTE ]

If he is that big of a maniac then of course this is ok. Sounds like you're being results oriented.
aces_dad
10-17-2005, 06:21 PM
But if you're willing to bet the river (because you think you're good) you should cap the turn.

Else, just check/call the river, if you're now just trying to get to a cheap showdown after getting 3bet on the turn.
Nightbrace
10-17-2005, 06:42 PM
I was afraid to cap the turn given the number of hands he plays and calls raises with preflop, I was hoping to check- raise to get him to fold either on the turn or river. When he re-raised me back I was afraid of 2-pair especially an Ace-rag that paired on the flop. he would just raise if I bet. Trying to learn how to protect against these guys, maybe there is no way to protect, but I guess in the long run thats good for us.
The river is a standard value bet right?
10-17-2005, 06:43 PM
Vs a maniac anything might be a value bet. Its just about how much variance you can tolerate. Vs a sane opponent you dont 3-bet turn and you dont bet river.
bottomset
10-17-2005, 06:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I was afraid to cap the turn given the number of hands he plays and calls raises with preflop, I was hoping to check- raise to get him to fold either on the turn or river. When he re-raised me back I was afraid of 2-pair especially an Ace-rag that paired on the flop. he would just raise if I bet. Trying to learn how to protect against these guys, maybe there is no way to protect, but I guess in the long run thats good for us.
The river is a standard value bet right?

[/ QUOTE ]

um do you pay attention to action on previous streets are just play each one in a vacuum

you say his 3bet on the turn, means 2pr a lot of the time, which beats you, you don't improve but lead the river anyway??
Nightbrace
10-17-2005, 06:47 PM
but what can I do against a player like this? There are a lot of them, and I consistently lose to them..
Nightbrace
10-17-2005, 06:52 PM
I agree, this entire hand sucked, I played poorly and I lost. I should have just folded the turn.
10-17-2005, 06:52 PM
Look at the results. You got unlucky. Against players like this you have to be willing to put in a couple extra bets with hands that you wouldn't against a reasonable opponents. This will be high variance, but very profitable in the long run. THis is very read dependent though, you have to see how many bets they are willing to go with what type of hands and adjust to that.
10-17-2005, 06:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, this entire hand sucked, I played poorly and I lost. I should have just folded the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is not what you should have taken away from this. Heads up I would not fold ANY pair to this type of opponent.
10-17-2005, 06:54 PM
Grunch,

Check Raise is fine. Since he's so aggressive, it's hard to tell but I put him on two pair when he reraises you on the turn. Think you might have spewed a bet on the river. Done it myself too many times. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
aces_dad
10-17-2005, 06:55 PM
Agreed you misread the intent of his post.

It was, "I may now be losing to 2pair and don't want to put more money in on the turn..."

against this opponent, that means just check/calling the river GIVEN the turn action. Top pair here against these maniac players is much too good to lay down in this hand.
Nightbrace
10-17-2005, 07:22 PM
I KNOW, but thats what you all seem to want me to think...
Nightbrace
10-17-2005, 07:23 PM
he had 24
10-17-2005, 07:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I KNOW, but thats what you all seem to want me to think...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, everyone is saying that your turn/river play is inconsisitent. If you think you're good greater than 50% of the time, cap the turn, if you think you're beaten greater than 50% of the time call the turn and check/call the river.
Nightbrace
10-17-2005, 07:30 PM
ok, I know that I played correctly, just lost one extra bet on the river, should have check/called, I usually value bet the river 70% of the time, maybe I need to re-examine my river play a bit. Thanks.
10-17-2005, 07:58 PM
Yeah you just are going to have variance with these types of players, but don't be afraid to put bets in with your good hands.
TomBrooks
10-18-2005, 03:10 PM
I bet the turn because I have no reason to believe BB is going to bet so I can get a checkraise in.

I check/call the river. His three bet on the turn often indicates better than top pair. Against this super aggro guy though, maybe I checkraise the river. I'd have to have a pretty good feel for him to do that though.
TomBrooks
10-18-2005, 03:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
he had 24

[/ QUOTE ]
Then you should have capped the turn but check/folded when the three came on the river.
shabamgoddam
10-18-2005, 03:49 PM
pre-flop is an automatic raise. the follow-up flop bet is also automatic. i can semi- understand the turn check raise if you think it will work in pushing him off his draw or 2nd pair. however, i think it screams "i just hit my big ace", and he seems completely unphased by it. there are a ton of hands a BB would defend with, A5/6/9 or 7/8o for ex. i think the check raise was bad because it would make hands that you beat drop out,A8/an ui pp, these hands fold and force you to donate more to a better hand which is all i see calling you. once you did check-raise the turn you have to slow down when he gives the aggresion back. at this point i would drop down to call/check/call. definately would NOT bet the river.imo.