$55: Help, I've become a hyperLAG? 8-10th place=26%, but still +1% ROI

[AA suited]

106 $50+5

itm = 29%
roi = 1%

8-10th = 26% total

Dumb moves? (all no reads) /images/graemlins/confused.gif

1) Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t955)
HERO (t840)
UTG (t1545)
UTG+1 (t1150)
MP1 (t1955)
MP2 (t1685)
CO (t850)
Button (t1020)

Preflop: HERO is BB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">HERO Pushes</font>


2)Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

HERO (t2470)
CO (t2170)
Button (t753)
SB (t2327)
BB (t1090)
UTG (t1190)

Preflop: HERO is MP with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">HERO raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t325, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t950) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">HERO bets t500</font>, SB calls t500.

Turn: (t1950) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, HERO checks.

River: (t1950) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB bets 500, <font color="#CC3333">HERO Pushes</font>

What would you have done instead in each case? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[applejuicekid]

1) I play the same.

2) I fold preflop, but if I do raise preflop I check the flop then bet/raise the turn depending on the opponent.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
106 $50+5



[/ QUOTE ]

ARGGG... don't draw any conclusions from that.

Those hands are really fishy. Both easy folds when you pushed.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
1) I play the same.

2) I fold preflop, but if I do raise preflop I check the flop then bet/raise the turn depending on the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

These suggestions are not very good. The first one is really bad without some amazing read... maybe...

You lose alot of FE checking the flop because it's so weak. If you're going to c-bet it has to be on the flop. Raising the turn... huh? A pf fold or raise is fine I think.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]


2) I fold preflop, but if I do raise preflop I check the flop then bet/raise the turn depending on the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

why check the flop instead of a continuation bet?

if you dont have a read, and check the flop, what would you do if he bets out on the Turn?

[jedinite]

1) Eight-handed with blinds this high, and you've just posted the BB. I hate this move baring specific reads, but I don't think its terrible. The min-raise here is too often a monster unless you've got specific reads that your opponent will min-raise here. If I'm going to push this I'd consider the stop+go over pushing preflop. Most of the time I'm just going to fold this with eight people left. The table is likely more tight than usual and I imagine i can steal more +$EV a couple times in this next orbit before the blind hits again.

2). Fold preflop.

Baring that, i don't hate the stab on the flop but I really don't like the resteal on the river. If you were going to try to steal this pot again, I'd push the blank turn. .

[applejuicekid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


2) I fold preflop, but if I do raise preflop I check the flop then bet/raise the turn depending on the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

why check the flop instead of a continuation bet?

if you dont have a read, and check the flop, what would you do if he bets out on the Turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I check this flop because so many hands that will call your raise preflop will call a bet on this flop. And a lot of these hands will be on a draw. By checking I don't let a draw check raise me, and I get to see what the turn looks like. Many cards can come which will have me lose interest in the hand and I will just fold. By doing this I feel I have more control of the hand, and my opponents hand will be more defined. If he checks twice I have more informtation and can steal the pot cheaper than I can with c-bet on the flop. This is strange play, and I won't play many hands like this.

If he bets the turn I will probably fold unless it is a very small bet and that's when I will raise. This is based on how I believe the average $55er plays.

[applejuicekid]

[ QUOTE ]
These suggestions are not very good.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK...why?

[ QUOTE ]
The first one is really bad without some amazing read... maybe...

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an opponent who will often min raise I think a push is a good play. I don't think you realize how often he will fold here, and how well our hand does against a loose caller's range. And if the table is fairly aggressive we may not get a good stealing opportunity untill the blinds pass again.



[ QUOTE ]
You lose alot of FE checking the flop because it's so weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you are going to push all in, I don't think you have much FE on this flop.

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to c-bet it has to be on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Because otherwise it is weak? So your saying an opponent who won't call the flop will call the turn when a blank hits?

[bigt439]

You realise when I say these suggestions are not very good I explain why. You should know this because you address my points after you say "Okay.. Why?"


I'm sorry but most of what you say is just wrong. No FE unless you go allin? That doesn't make any sense.

Checking the flop is not only bad because you lose FE, you also open the door to being bet into. Where you'd have to fold, although it looks like you'll tell me otherwise.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but there is a lot of flawed logic in your post.

[jeffraider]

Why not just fold hand 1? MP2 has enough chips to call you with a lot of stuff here and your hand is no good against most of it.

Hand 2 there's nothing wrong with just folding preflop, but if you are going to pop it you raised the right amount and your c-bet on the flop is fine, even though this flop sucks to c-bet it's heads up and you win the pot here enough to make it work. Once he calls you though, I think you've gotta just shut down completely.

It seems like you're getting just a wee bit too tricky.

[Jason Strasser]

Both are bad.

Hand 1 you need to fold because there are better opportunities then offering someone 2-1 with A5o who has shown interest in the hand. Just steal blinds with trash and you're better off.

Hand 2 is pretty terrible because in my old days of playing that flop-turn-river combination by the opponent is a hand he intends to show down. Just fold the river. I also prefer a bet of 700-800 on the flop because its stronger and you're less likely to get CR with marginal hands/bluffs. Also when you have a hand i also bet that much so that hands that pay me off make big pots with me.

Think things out when you play
-Jason

[bennies]

Hand 1: Bad push unless villain minraises a lot or unless he is donk.



Hand 2: Crazy but fun. I fold preflop, but never mind that. The river push had me laughing and I didn't know what to think of it so that's what I decided to do, step back and think.

If we think me might have the best hand, we should just call. However this is highly unlikely, actually I can think of no hands villain could have that call preflop and on the flop and that we beat. We really only beat a huge bluff and a huge bluff would bet more on the river.

So, we are behind 95% of the time, and we are stubborn, we want to find a reason to push the river. Ok, so we must ask, what hands could villain have that we might make fold.
2 pair will be afraid of a straight/flush but it doesn't fold. A pair (but probably not a K's) or worse might fold, I'll think about these.

Maybe we could make villain fold these hands: AJ, AT, A9, A8, QJ, QTs, 99, T9s, 98s . Quite a few actually. But, there are two problems putting villain on this range.

1) Most of these hands should raise the flop, the board is scary and they shouldn't want to give cards to overcards or a straight. Not raising makes most sense if villain is on a draw himself (and if he is passive).

2) All of these hands usually check the river. They are too weak to bet for value. A river block bet (?) might make sense though.

Given these two objections, making "foldable" hands less likely I think the river push is bad - villain most likely has non of these hands and will call with something better.

[Nicholasp27]

why i think hand 1 push was bad


pot odds:

after you pushed, there was 1090 in the pot
he had to call 640 to win that, so 1.7-1 odds, so he only has to win 37% of the time

even if he has 2 random cards in between your 2 that don't make a straight draw (ie q7o), he's still 39.5%...obviously flush/straight draws or pp make him well over that...only the few times he has a 2/3/4 does he not have odds to call here



however, this is a tournament, so pot odds aren't everything...so let's look at the stacks...the min-raiser has double your stack, so worst case he's where u were, at 8bbs...best case he's got 2500, and can bully the entire table...additionally, the fact that he min-raised shows u he has some sorta hand (possibly trapping with a monster) and you have much less FE

most hands are basically coinflips hu, so i'd rather push first in with a much worse hand than a5 than push after someone already entered the pot

i don't think this is a re-steal spot since u had 1/2 his chips

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
why i think hand 1 push was bad


pot odds:

after you pushed, there was 1090 in the pot
he had to call 640 to win that, so 1.7-1 odds, so he only has to win 37% of the time


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it's higher than that, you should use ICM and not pot odds, but whatever it's still a crappy push. I'll work out what % he actually needs if I can be arsed /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[rockythecat99]

Both hands are folds. First one fold preflop. Second one fold on the river. Seriously think before you do these things. Bluffs only work when they make sense. What the hell were you representing on the river???

[fnord_too]

1. I probably fold to the mini raise unless I have a real good reason.
2. I definitely fold to the river bet.
3. I made a much worse stupid agro move yeterday: Raise with AQ, one caller. Continue on a K high flop, get called, decide I am done with the hand. Pot is 650ish, I have like 1K maybe. Check, bet 200 (&lt; 1/3 pot, wtf? he's strong or weak, and I'm guessing weak so...), I decide to represent AK and push. (I end up check folding a lot of turns, not sure if I had on this table, but I think I was thinking "Damnit, people have just been playing back at me today!" btw, I was representing the hand he had, DOH!)

[tigerite]

I did this with 99 on a Q high rainbow flop, as I figured his bet was weak, and of course he turned over AQ. So, yeah, I make stupid donkish moves as well.

[Nicholasp27]

i do use icm, not pot odds...but was just showing what's going through the opp's head when he decides to call or not...he's seeing that he has pot odds and that he'll still have 8bb if loses and will have a bullying 2500 stack if he wins...

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
i do use icm, not pot odds...but was just showing what's going through the opp's head when he decides to call or not...he's seeing that he has pot odds and that he'll still have 8bb if loses and will have a bullying 2500 stack if he wins...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. He probably only needs 40%-ish by ICM anyway.

[zipppy]

before reading the other responses...

1) I fold in this spot. Without a read on your opponent, you have no reason to believe he/she will fold to your push, and no reason to believe that it will even be a coinflip if they do call.

2) If I make a c-bet in this spot, I usually make it either pot sized or a push. Otherwise I fold.

&gt;&gt;&gt;ZIPPPY

[citanul]

dude, every week or so you make a post with how you're running over your last 100 tournaments in the title, or as the total content of the post. you should stop that. if you want to ask about the hands, or in general over say, a sample of some reasonable number of tournaments a question about your stats and what they should mean, do that. don't do stupid stuff. you're smart enough to know what stupid stuff is. you know that your itm over 100 games can vary widely, i've seen you post on the subject. also, you know that the hands you posted in this specific post are mildly to strongly related to your reads of the opponents. so to that, i give you a "meh" and a "please don't start any more threads with your stats over small samples in the title or body of the post, as you have been warned."

citanul

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
106 $50+5

itm = 29%
roi = 1%

8-10th = 26% total

[/ QUOTE ]

i stopped reading here...time to get back to basics

i'd suggest playing 300 SNG's the ABC 2+2 way, then slowly open up your game again...clearly you have gone too far