Is this a standard play? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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mtdoak

10-13-2005, 11:15 PM

Reads: UTG is loose passive, MP2 is loose aggressive. He's been raising preflop with hands like J8s, A4o.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

I really want to knock the loose passive out here. But he will have none of it.

Flop: (10.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Gutshot+overcard=gimme that free card.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Double Gutshots are tasty. And are free cards

River: (8.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Laggish? Terribly standard? Donktastic?

Borodog

10-13-2005, 11:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reads: UTG is loose passive . . .

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets

[/ QUOTE ]

I presume the UTG read is actually UTG+1, since UTG is not in the hand? Given that, no, this is not standard. I think this is a suicide raise.

But excellent job on the runner-runner.

silkyslim

10-13-2005, 11:30 PM

i dont get the pf 3 bet unless you worded your reads wrong. Other than that, do you think your ace is good? i dont. I would just call on the flop. given reads (see they are confusing) there is a good chance MP2 might 3 bet you or not give you a free card. nice turn and river.

mtdoak

10-13-2005, 11:33 PM

Converter messed up, MP2 raised, i 3 bet him to isolate. Didn't notice it till now

silkyslim

10-13-2005, 11:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Converter messed up, MP2 raised, i 3 bet him to isolate. Didn't notice it till now

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah i dont like the free card play with this crazy guy, since they dislike it so much and try to deny you it. pf is good, nice table.

Borodog

10-13-2005, 11:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Converter messed up, MP2 raised, i 3 bet him to isolate. Didn't notice it till now

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there an arched eyebrow smiley?

hellite

10-14-2005, 12:02 AM

This is ludicrous. You are playing badly. (1) do not try to isolate lags with mediocre hands like A10o. Pick your spots better. A10o is mediocre and there is no reason to put three sb into a pot you have no commitment to. (2)The flop raise is horrible. Sure yo got a free card and made runner runner straight but most of the time you aren't going to get that free card AND your draw aint that good you know? What if you get three bet = catastrophe. Turn, River are standard.

brettbrettr

10-14-2005, 12:07 AM

What on God's green earth are you talking about? AT is *more* than enough to isolate a lag with. What are you waiting for, AK?

SeaEagle

10-14-2005, 12:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What on God's green earth are you talking about? AT is *more* than enough to isolate a lag with. What are you waiting for, AK?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto. I like the whole hand. The flop raise is risky, but you'd really like to knock out the 3rd player and get this HU against villian, where your A-high might be enough.

Solid_p

10-14-2005, 06:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is ludicrous. You are playing badly. (1) do not try to isolate lags with mediocre hands like A10o. Pick your spots better. A10o is mediocre and there is no reason to put three sb into a pot you have no commitment to. (2)The flop raise is horrible. Sure yo got a free card and made runner runner straight but most of the time you aren't going to get that free card AND your draw aint that good you know? What if you get three bet = catastrophe. Turn, River are standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wont be playing many hands if you let LAG:s get away too easy. Don't always follow your preflop chart. ATo is a good hand to isolate someone who raises far too light. Punish 'em!!!

Solid_p

10-14-2005, 06:23 AM

Flop play is somewhat risky, but since you showed a lot of strength by 3-betting the flop, it might be good here even against a lag. Other than that, standard.

10-14-2005, 09:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What on God's green earth are you talking about? AT is *more* than enough to isolate a lag with. What are you waiting for, AK?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto. I like the whole hand. The flop raise is risky, but you'd really like to knock out the 3rd player and get this HU against villian, where your A-high might be enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it. I need to work on using isolation a lot more.

SackUp

10-14-2005, 10:58 AM

Given your read the whole hand is played perfectly. Nice suckout with the runner runner!

Fish /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mister Z

10-14-2005, 11:06 AM

I gotta admit that I like everything postflop. Not crazy about this isolation-type raise with ATo however. Even given your read I'm laying this down.

alul

10-14-2005, 12:04 PM

The post name should be "How to outLAG the LAG". NH

10-14-2005, 12:55 PM

I thought the hero played the hand perfectly, I understand that raising the flop was controversial, but in this large pot I think the hero must raise and take that nasty risk of being 3 bet and lead into on the turn. Although unlikely the hero could still have the best hand so if he can eliminate the early guy in this large pot the raise has done its job, plus even if the hero doesnt have the best hand he still has enough of a hand to call the flop so why not raise and go for the free card play, so what if the lag may 3 bet alot in this sitation, in a large pot this free card play only has to work a small percentage of time to make this right. Also, for those of you who said to fold ATo preflop, I think youre being way too conservative. Against a traditional lag I would fold ATo, but against a guy thats raising all kinds of garbage like this guy, ATo is too good to fold.