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deception5
10-13-2005, 11:07 PM
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero...
lautzutao
10-13-2005, 11:07 PM
Definitely.

Would you have called a donk?
Rev. Good Will
10-13-2005, 11:09 PM
erm, so the 2/5/6/images/graemlins/heart.gif will call?

check it, no value here
deception5
10-13-2005, 11:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Would you have called a donk?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup.
deception5
10-13-2005, 11:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
erm, so the 2/5/6 will call?

check it, no value here

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget non-flush hands.
lautzutao
10-13-2005, 11:14 PM
why wouldn't a T, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif bet out here if they had it. They're afraid of an Ace from hero? Assuming a Q would bet here...
Rev. Good Will
10-13-2005, 11:46 PM
alot of passive players won't bet without the nuts or 2nd nuts
10-13-2005, 11:46 PM
*grunch*
Hands like these show me how little I know.

I bet.
IMO. Chance of c\r is almost 0. I also think there is just as much chance someone holds the 9TorJ:hearts: as someone folding it to a bet.
Therefore, a bet can only be +ve EV.

- Let me see how wrong I am
xenthebrain
10-14-2005, 08:31 AM
I really don't want to get c/r here with the low flush.
And there are few hands that will call us that we beat, probably only the strongest non-flush holdings.
And even a better flush might just have checked fearing the A or K.
deception5
10-14-2005, 10:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't want to get c/r here with the low flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

But really how often is a low flush going to check/raise me on a 4-flush board when I could have just checked behind?

[ QUOTE ]
And there are few hands that will call us that we beat, probably only the strongest non-flush holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking after the lack of strength I've shown I may even get called by top pair here.

[ QUOTE ]
And even a better flush might just have checked fearing the A or K.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutely true and the crux of the question imho.
xenthebrain
10-14-2005, 11:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't want to get c/r here with the low flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

But really how often is a low flush going to check/raise me on a 4-flush board when I could have just checked behind?

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't say a low flush will c/r raise, but that you don't want to get c/r with your low flush.

I see it quite often.
People check with the A or K and think "when I bet, they will fold anyway, so I check and hope they bet".
Roadstar
10-14-2005, 04:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]


Any reads at all? Without reads I'd vote for bet

an A /images/graemlins/heart.gif or Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif would have likely bet the turn (seeing your check on the flop).

A 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif would have made a play on the flop with TP. So based on the number of "reasonable" /images/graemlins/heart.gif's left and the action taken in previous streets, its a value bet. You're losing to J-T /images/graemlins/heart.gif and beating the rest. Also you might be called by non-flush holdings.
tiltaholic
10-14-2005, 05:10 PM
i think this is a clear value bet.

non-flush hands will call.
flush hands won't raise.
deception5
10-14-2005, 05:42 PM
I agree, I think this is a pretty clear value bet.

Thanks for the interesting discussion!