$55's - flopped straight w/ flush on board...

[Back In Black]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1285)
Hero (t985)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t985)
UTG+1 (t985)
MP1 (t970)
MP2 (t1855)
MP3 (t990)
CO (t945)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t15, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t72.50) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t60</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t60, UTG+1 calls t60, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t252.50) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t250.

River: (t752.50) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t500</font>, Hero calls t250.

[Shilly]

Anyone else check/call the river here?

[bigt439]

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Anyone else check/call the river here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Definitely. Think about it. If you're not going to fold to the raise (I'm not saying you should), you'll probably get more out of busted hands and lose the minimum to a flush.

Everything else is fine.

[RikaKazak]

check river

[Back In Black]

this is the line I would have taken if I had the hand back. I was thinking at the time that I wanted to get the most out of a 2 pair hand or a set that was holding on to see a cheap showdown. As soon as I hit "bet" I wished I would have checked to induce a bluff.

nh guys.

[pokerlaw]

i dont see the point in betting the pot on the turn. either he has the frush and is ahead now, OR he is drawing to one, at which you dont need to be betting the pot to be pricing him out. bet t160 and then check/call the river.

[adanthar]

I go one step further and just check the turn, although I'd bet it HU. The 8 is the worst non-spade that could have hit and you're now dead, tied or getting freerolled by anything that calls. About 1 in 5 times that everyone checks, you lose the pot by checking, but when something cool happens (like UTG bets and the other guy raises, or when you're bet into hard and can dump the hand) it basically pays for itself.

Also, I would tend to CR the flop and try to get all in against the naked ace or at least play a nice big pot that I can push him off of on the turn. I slow way down once I get two callers, though.

[Back In Black]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont see the point in betting the pot on the turn. either he has the frush and is ahead now, OR he is drawing to one, at which you dont need to be betting the pot to be pricing him out. bet t160 and then check/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this. I know that it would be a correct line according to ToP, but I want him out of the pot NOW if he's on a draw. If he raises me here I fold and have 750 left. If he calls and the /images/graemlins/spade.gif hits, I get out on the river with 750. I think he raises me on the turn if he does not have the Ax /images/graemlins/spade.gif to get me off my A /images/graemlins/spade.gif draw. I want to give a draw the worst odds possible (within reason) to draw to his flush or boat.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont see the point in betting the pot on the turn. either he has the frush and is ahead now, OR he is drawing to one, at which you dont need to be betting the pot to be pricing him out. bet t160 and then check/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? This doesn't make sense. You certainly don't want to be pricing him in. You still have what is often the best hand there. Get value out of it.

[bigt439]

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The 8 is the worst non-spade that could have hit and you're now dead, tied or getting freerolled by anything that calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually really like your posts, but this one seems fairly off base. You can't think of hands that are calling you on the turn that you have beat, usually fairly handidly at that? I can think of a helluva lot. And the 8 really is not that bad of a card. I mean it's not great, but there aren't too many people drawing with a naked 7 here. That's a pretty bad play. Obviously any spade is way worse, but I think the board pairing is too. I see your point, but it's not the worst card. I just really feel like checking here is a big mistake.

[Pudge714]

I like check calling the river. He either has a flush or is drawing to one. If you check call the river he will bluff a lot of missed flushes, and you can just call his value bet. That being said I don't think he was the flush or he would have raised the flop or turn, but check calling is defintley safer.

[inyaface]

[ QUOTE ]
but there aren't too many people drawing with a naked 7 here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Que pasa?
did you play the 55's...I think alot of people could be drawing with the naked 7. In fact it doesn't need to be a naked 7. I think a more likely hand is A7 or 77 with a spade.
In general I like the flop and turn line...check call the river so you don't need to add to the rake when you chop it... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[bigt439]

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but there aren't too many people drawing with a naked 7 here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Que pasa?
did you play the 55's...I think alot of people could be drawing with the naked 7. In fact it doesn't need to be a naked 7. I think a more likely hand is A7 or 77 with a spade.
In general I like the flop and turn line...check call the river so you don't need to add to the rake when you chop it... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah. What I was saying was all relative to what he was saying. I know people have 7's here, but it's not a ridiculous amount of the time, and because it only chops the pot instead of stealing it from you if you do... etc... And I really don't think alot of people are drawing with the naked 7. Yeah you see people doing it, but you also don't see a lot of people folding them. Yeah combo draws, I know, but there are less combinations of those hands... you get my point... I hate you... you better be coming to homecoming Friday... get me my monitor... that is all.

[adanthar]

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I see your point, but it's not the worst card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Name a worse card.

Checking costs you 1/5 of a 250 chip pot when it is checked through (not every time) and you have the best hand (not every time) or 50 chips. Betting and then getting called/raised costs you a lot more chips on average (there's not even a question about this). When you bet and are not called, they were sometimes drawing dead anyway. So the question is how many chips you get from betting and folding hands with exactly one spade and whether that offsets the times a 7 or a flush raises (note you can't really call a raise from either of them.)

To put this another way, what's your expectation when you get called on this board? You are not making a value bet, so figure out what you're doing.

[Back In Black]

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You are not making a value bet, so figure out what you're doing.

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Thats exactly what this is.

[Pudge714]

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The 8 is the worst non-spade that could have hit and you're now dead, tied or getting freerolled by anything that calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually really like your posts, but this one seems fairly off base. You can't think of hands that are calling you on the turn that you have beat, usually fairly handidly at that? I can think of a helluva lot. And the 8 really is not that bad of a card. I mean it's not great, but there aren't too many people drawing with a naked 7 here. That's a pretty bad play. Obviously any spade is way worse, but I think the board pairing is too. I see your point, but it's not the worst card. I just really feel like checking here is a big mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although a seven might be unlikely I think his original statement that the eight is the worst non spade is pretty accurate. I don't think any one has a set so a board pair wouldn't be worse, and some one is more likely to be playing a seven then a three. So it is defintely the worst non spade on the turn. If not what is worse?

[Back In Black]

7?