should I of folded this house 20+2

Villan looks to me like hes made a house. He has gone from checking all the way to betting 480 in to a pot of 60. Player two called so probably has an ace. I have a house but is it good. What should I have done on this

rable '12793567 1' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bigolo (1620 in chips)
Seat 2: guit3457 (1460 in chips)
Seat 3: <font color="red"> Hero </font> (1470 in chips)
Seat 4: AW_Z3 (1470 in chips)
Seat 5: K9Brandi (1730 in chips)
Seat 6: PanJ (1440 in chips)
Seat 7: pokafiend (1480 in chips)
Seat 8: beesonosu (1330 in chips)
Seat 9: sirius144 (1500 in chips)
PanJ: posts small blind 10
pokafiend: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to <font color="red"> Hero </font> [6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif]
beesonosu: folds
sirius144: folds
bigolo: folds
guit3457: folds
<font color="red"> Hero </font> : calls 20
AW_Z3: folds
K9Brandi: folds
PanJ: calls 10
pokafiend: checks
*** FLOP *** [6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]
PanJ: checks
pokafiend: checks
<font color="red"> Hero </font>:Checks
*** TURN *** [6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif] [A /images/graemlins/club.gif]
PanJ: checks
pokafiend: checks
<font color="red">Hero </font> : checks
*** RIVER *** [6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif] [9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]
PanJ: bets 480
pokafiend: calls 480
<font color="red"> Hero </font> : calls 480

[Freudian]

You my friend, suffer from MUTBS (monsters under the bed syndrome).

You have earlier tried convincing yourself that folding an AA overpair is correct. Now you get a full house and don't bet it at all.

Stop being scared of losing hands. Play to win them. Bet your set on this flop. Try to get all your chips in on the turn. You are giving up so much value by playing scared that it may even be impossible for you to be a winning player.

[RikaKazak]

ummm, I don't get this, why did you check the flop? why did you check the turn? imo this was a horribly played hand. as far as the river call, there has been so much weakness, do you think you're good enough? I got no idea, cause i would of bet that drawing board on the flop.

Alright mate what do you think this 480 bet means. What do u put him on and are u prepared to go broke at level one with this hand. Dont make it sound like the situation is clear cut its simply not.

And I dont see what is wrong with checking the flop or the turn for that matter.

[Freudian]

Btw. I don't think I ever have folded a full house when there is only one pair on the board in a SnG.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
Alright mate what do you think this 480 bet means. What do u put him on and are u prepared to go broke at level one with this hand. Dont make it sound like the situation is clear cut its simply not.

And I dont see what is wrong with checking the flop or the turn for that matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't see why it is wrong to check on the flop and the turn with what most likely is the best hand then I am sure you are a losing player.

This is really really elementary poker stuff, you know.

[Double Down]

I understand why you checked the flop. It's fun to slowplay and excited to hit a set, but with a flush draw out there and a straight draw, it's good to bet out. Scared of chasing them away? Well, whoever has the ace will probably call you. If they don't call you on flop, they won't call you on turn either so you'd might as well bet the flop. With draws out there, you need to protect your hand no matter how good it is (unless you flop a boat, in which case you're kind of hoping someone will make their flush or straight). as far as the river, push it cause whoever has an ace will call you and there are many more ways that someone has an ace compared to the number of possible boats. You won't get an ace to fold, so push.

[ QUOTE ]
ummm, I don't get this, why did you check the flop? why did you check the turn? imo this was a horribly played hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


I dont see what is wrong with slowplaying this set. I have 20 chips invested theres only sixty in the pot if the board becomes to scary I can easily lay it down. I checked the turn because I didnt have to fear any draws. And Im now hopong to bust someone with an ace. But when I guy makes a bet like that it makes u revaluate how strong your hand actaully is.

Flop and turn play aside what are your thoughts on the river should I have folded pushed or called?

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't see why it is wrong to check on the flop and the turn with what most likely is the best hand then I am sure you are a losing player.


[/ QUOTE ]
Alriht [censored]. Im not a losing player far from it. Im trying to win a big pot here early but I can easily get away from this if the board become to scary. I have very little invested and the pot is small.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ummm, I don't get this, why did you check the flop? why did you check the turn? imo this was a horribly played hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


I dont see what is wrong with slowplaying this set. I have 20 chips invested theres only sixty in the pot if the board becomes to scary I can easily lay it down. I checked the turn because I didnt have to fear any draws. And Im now hopong to bust someone with an ace. But when I guy makes a bet like that it makes u revaluate how strong your hand actaully is.

Flop and turn play aside what are your thoughts on the river should I have folded pushed or called?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why it is wrong to slowplay this set:

1. There is a flushdraw on the flop. You are giving the others infinite odds to hit a flush that will beat your set.

2. There is a straightdraw on this flop. You are giving the others infinite odds to hit a straight that will beat your set.

3. By not betting this flop and turn the pot is only 60 chips on the river. How on earth are you planning to make a lot of chips when the pot is so tiny on the river?

And of course you have to call this river.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't see why it is wrong to check on the flop and the turn with what most likely is the best hand then I am sure you are a losing player.


[/ QUOTE ]
Alriht [censored]. Im not a losing player far from it. Im trying to win a big pot here early but I can easily get away from this if the board become to scary. I have very little invested and the pot is small.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you have "invested" is completely irrelevant. And why are you worrying about the board becoming to scary? Are you seriously looking for ways to get away from a flopped set?

And I am fairly certain that you are not a winning player. You have huge fundamental leaks.

[ QUOTE ]
What you have "invested" is completely irrelevant. And why are you worrying about the board becoming to scary? Are you seriously looking for ways to get away from a flopped set?

And I am fairly certain that you are not a winning player. You have huge fundamental leaks.



[/ QUOTE ]

First of all how the [censored] would you know If im a winning player or not. Secondly Im not trying to get away form a set Im slowplaying it but Im aware of the possible draws out there and I can lay it down if they hit. Thirdly the question was about the river. Im aware I could of played it differently up until that point and i will take not of all the comments but the river is the tough part of the hand and the part that Im really looking for help on.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What you have "invested" is completely irrelevant. And why are you worrying about the board becoming to scary? Are you seriously looking for ways to get away from a flopped set?

And I am fairly certain that you are not a winning player. You have huge fundamental leaks.



[/ QUOTE ]

First of all how the [censored] would you know If im a winning player or not. Secondly Im not trying to get away form a set Im slowplaying it but Im aware of the possible draws out there and I can lay it down if they hit. Thirdly the question was about the river. Im aware I could of played it differently up until that point and i will take not of all the comments but the river is the tough part of the hand and the part that Im really looking for help on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to bother to try to help you anymore. I don't think you are receptive enough to take advice. Good luck with your slowplaying ways.

[Kristian]

First of all, I agree with everyone that you need to bet before river. It is understandable that you want to slowplay your monster on the flop, but I think it is the wrong move.

Second, it is impossible for you to make a read on the river because of your mistakes on previous streets, and I think that is the real reason for your difficulties.

Third, if forced to play flop and turn this way, I push everytime on this river.

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, I agree with everyone that you need to bet before river. It is understandable that you want to slowplay your monster on the flop, but I think it is the wrong move.

Second, it is impossible for you to make a read on the river because of your mistakes on previous streets, and I think that is the real reason for your difficulties.

Third, if forced to play flop and turn this way, I push everytime on this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

best post so far thank you. Disagree with the river but a well thought out response.

[Huckle]

Why should you think about getting away from the hand if it gets scary?
Try to make the most out of it instead. You have a great hand, it's disguised and will probably be paid off by any ace out there.

You shouldn't be afraid of people sitting with draws, you should bet enough on the flop and the turn that they make mistakes by calling.

I'd bet maybe 20-30 on the flop, and 2/3 the pot on the turn, if they call and make a bigger full house, so be it.

[Hendricks433]

I see that you want to slow play but you flopped a set. You have to make the draws pay to get there and get chips from the Ace(If someone has it). This is not a good time to slowplay. You dont flop a set all the time and passing up a chance at a ton of chips in a SNG early is very -EV IMO. You cant know where your at and if you may be beat if you never bet to extract info and chips.

[Hendricks433]

also you said your not trying to get away from the set but you said if it gets scary you can fold. Thats a horrible outlook on the hand. Flop a monster and the first thing you want to do is not get any chips in just incase they hit. Well then chips are only going in the pot if your beat if you want to slowplay it with flush draws and straight draws. Look up Betting for Value. Sorry if I was mean about it but I think you missed played it horribly and need to get some Balls and not be scared.

What hands is that a good way to play the flop against? The way I see it, you'd very much prefer to be betting against: An Ace, two pair, a flush draw, a straight draw. And it's okay against bottom/mid pair or complete blanks. So it's bad against any hand you stand to make a lot of chips from, and okay against hands that aren't going to give you many chips no matter what you do. Oh and it's okay against monsters under the bed.

[Sciolist]

This is pretty weak. You are aiming to minimise your losses, which is a fine thing, but you also have to maximise your winnings.

This is just too dangerous a flop to give two freecards. I am betting this all the way, and betting it so that draws are making serious mistakes in calling me.

Furthermore, what looks like minimising your losses is deceptive. What if someone else has a well disguised hand that hit on the river? You can't get away from it now that the board paired. I assume that's why you're posting the hand, incidentally, as the (ok, sometimes abrasive) feedback has been responded to from you as if the posters are suggesting you shower once a month, not that this isn't the ideal place to slowplay.

i would deffo prepared to go broke with that hand.
i would play it different than you but if would deffo put all my chips on the line with this hand.
the situation is pretty clear cutt,much more so than you think.
just because he checked and now makes a 480 bet dosent mean he has a house that has you beat.
think about it,if he has a house, why is he trying to scare people away with an over bet?im not saying its not possible for him to have a better house, what im saying is you should be prepared to go all the way with this hand, if you loose you loose but CHANCES are you have the best hand .
if your only willing to put your money in with the nuts, your loosing huge value, and you simply wont get the nuts often enough to make anything out of it.
whats more if you play that tight, people will catch on and will not pay you off nearly enough when you do have the nuts.
i hope that makes sense.

[schwza]

here is why you have to bet the flop:

if someone has Ax, they will probably go to the felt, or at least put a bunch of chips in, but you need to build the pot.

the bigger issue is that no card is going to come to make a worse hand want to go broke. for example, if the board were J76, then an A on the turn might make AT want to go broke. that's an argument for slowplaying. pretty much the only hand that's going to improve to where they want to put in a lot of chips is a hand like T8, which goes from nothing at all to maybe making a hand that can beat you.

[Rduke55]

I think that this is a clear case of where you want to play super-aggressively. I like overbetting the pot before slowplaying here.
A lot of Ax's, flush draws, and str8 draws are going to come along.

Congratulations. I've been reading this message board for months and your play was the first that finally inspired me to post my thoughts.

There has been considerable debate here as to whether or not slowplaying on this board was a good idea. What kills me is that you got just about the best turn and river cards you could hope for and, not only did you not raise on the river, you mentioned the word FOLD. LOL.

The flush didn't come and a weak str8 draw came AFTER the board already paired. If you are seriously scared of being behind in this hand, there are a lot of posters that would probably pay for your screen name to add you to their buddy list.

Once in a while someone is going to have A7, A6, A9, 99, 77 but that's why nobody is in the money all the time. A decent player with two pair or trips is going to wake up before the river on this board because they too should be afraid of the flush/str8 draws.

My question is this, should you push the river or just reraise to about 1000? I would be afraid of chasing both of them out with reraising too big because the caller probably thinks the bettor is trying to buy the pot and I think he is right.

Oh, and before you ask, Erietree, yes I would call an over-the-top all in as fast as possible.

T

[Rduke55]

So what happened?

[DDH]

Yeah, if you're even thinking about folding this, I almost have to side with the people saying that you have a huge leak in your play. The number of times you triple up against two people with A10 and AJ here far outweigh the number of times you go up against 77, or A7. On the river, the words fold and call are not part of my volcabulary, you have a deceptively huge hand and are probably up against two people with a set of aces they will not be able to get away from. I go all in on both of them here and either go broke once and awhile, or win a huge pot most of the time.

[wildzer0]

If you want to see why slowplaying is usually not correct, turn on your pokertracker replayer with all the cards showing and watch a few 22s. You will repeatedly see players who try to slowplay vulnerable hands and go broke because of it. I think that slowplaying is probably the most over-used concept in poker. There have to be pretty specific circumstances to make it correct. One of them is that you're not likely to get action if you bet. This is a PP 22, there is an ace on the board and a few draws - you will get action if you bet.

So, in conclusion. You should be doing your best to get all your chips in from the flop on. Giving a free card is a mistake here.

[Rduke55]

Yeah, also push the hell out of that river. You slowplayed to disguise your hand. So try and salvage something here. You may go broke but other times you'll win a monstrous pot and cripple two people.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alright mate what do you think this 480 bet means. What do u put him on and are u prepared to go broke at level one with this hand. Dont make it sound like the situation is clear cut its simply not.

And I dont see what is wrong with checking the flop or the turn for that matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't see why it is wrong to check on the flop and the turn with what most likely is the best hand then I am sure you are a losing player.

This is really really elementary poker stuff, you know.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this guy.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't see why it is wrong to check on the flop and the turn with what most likely is the best hand then I am sure you are a losing player.


[/ QUOTE ]
Alriht [censored]. Im not a losing player far from it. Im trying to win a big pot here early but I can easily get away from this if the board become to scary. I have very little invested and the pot is small.

[/ QUOTE ]
How is this board scary? This is one of the least scary boards I can think of. Maybe if the flush draw hit without you having a full house. Or definately if a 7 hit on the river you would probably fold. But the way it played out, you could not have hoped for a better board.

[kyro]

You played this hand terribly. Not betting this flop is criminal. Not betting the turn is criminal. You deserved to lose this hand.

[illegit]

I don't know about calling on the end, but I do know about betting on the flop. And if not there then definitely on the turn. You succeeded in keeping the pot small with a huge hand. Nice work.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont see what is wrong with slowplaying this set. I have 20 chips invested theres only sixty in the pot if the board becomes to scary I can easily lay it down.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh dear heaven. This is easily one of the most painful statements I have ever read. Excruciating to read stuff like this. You can NOT possibly be serious? Can you?
[ QUOTE ]
Alriht [censored]. Im not a losing player far from it. Im trying to win a big pot here early but I can easily get away from this if the board become to scary. I have very little invested and the pot is small.

[/ QUOTE ]
WWTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

WIN A BIG POT? By checking when you hit a set on a board where an Ace fell, AND there are a lot of drawing hands possible?! Win a big pot by betting! The draws will come, the Aces will come, if no one comes, oh well you probably weren't gonna make much anyway. When you fill up on the turn the Ace will give you his whole stack!

[ QUOTE ]
I checked the turn because I didnt have to fear any draws. And Im now hopong to bust someone with an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]
YOU BUST SOMEONE WITH AN ACE BY BETTING THE TURN!!! Do you really think they're going to fold an ace?! WTF?!!?

[45suited]

I would have folded to a mini-bet on the river.

Obviously, somebody was slow playing quad aces. All good players slow play. Value betting is for fish.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't see why it is wrong to check on the flop and the turn with what most likely is the best hand then I am sure you are a losing player.


[/ QUOTE ]
Alriht [censored]. Im not a losing player far from it. Im trying to win a big pot here early but I can easily get away from this if the board become to scary. I have very little invested and the pot is small.

[/ QUOTE ]You're trying to win a big pot, but you're not placing any bets to help the pot grow and when someone does put big money in the pot you think maybe you should walk away. I don't think your thinking is consistent.

Maybe you're worried that a bet on the flop or turn will scare the others off, so you're waiting for them to bet. If so, your plan has worked, call the bet (or raise). (I see from the hand record that you did call the 480, which suggests you probably were beat -- otherwise no post -- oh well.)

[playtitleist]

You played this hand for set value right? You got it, so you need to maximize it.

Flop:
It's you against the blinds, so you have to consider what they would be checking this flop with. BB could have absolutley anything, cuz it's been free to play so far. SB might have an A, since he called pre-flop. Two diamonds or open-end straight draws are unlikely just based on random hand principles. The only hands you trail on the flop are AAA/777. Neither likely at all.

So knowing you are ahead how are you going to maximize your take?

Checking nets you $0 going to the turn and gives the Villains infinite odds.
A raise of 1/2 the pot will keep the flush/straight draws in (at wrong odds) and may get a raise from any A or 7.
A pot size raise might chase them both out, but will definitely be called by any A or two pair.

Another thing I have noted at the $22s is slow-playing a flopped set doesn't make a lot of sense, because everybody slow-plays a flopped set, so when you bet out with your set you often get called because nobody puts you on that hand.

I bet somewhere aroudn t45 here, and expect to get at least one call.


Turn:
Your full-house is made. It get's checked to you and you don't bet. When do you plan to make money on this hand? How are you going to know if you are even against an A if you don't bet? By not betting here any card on the river becomes a scare card when they bet.

You checked the flop so still t60 in the pot. Bet the pot. You get called by any A and the straight and flush draws might still come along for the ride thinking they can bust the trips Aces you are now representing. Though they are not getting the odds.

Checking nets you $0.
Pot bet wins the pot here or bumps it up to t180 or higher. This is what you want, because you have a full-friggin-house man.
Either way, betting is +chips. Checking gets you nothing again.


River:
This turned out to be a bad card for you, I suspect. One of these clowns held 99 and didn't raise pre-flop, or held A9 and tried to trap you? Your flop and turn plays allowed SB to suck out on you huh? So, instead of maximizing your value, you completely minimized it.

Had the nine not come on the river you might have been checked to again, then what would you have done? Bet t60? The pot is so small at this point you have basically wasted all equity your set had on the flop.

My play:
Flop - bet pot
Turn - bet 2/3 of new pot
River - raise all-in to any bet, if checked to, make "call me" bet to get something out of this hand. Woof.

If you only lose with full-houses, I don't want to play at your table.

Peace out.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont see what is wrong with slowplaying this set.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, a lot of people have already told you what is wrong with it, but you don't seem to be listenning. I'll add a little to this... To slowplay, a few conditions have to be true. One of them is that you have a monster that isn't likely to get outdrawn if you give a free card. This clearly isn't the case. Any diamond opens up flush possibilities, and if the turn comes a 3,4,5,8,9, or T you now have straight possibilities (however remote) to contend with. You must make your opponents make mistakes. Bet on the flop so that your opponent is getting incorrect odds to draw to a flush or straight. If you don't understand this, re-read theory of poker to review some of the most basic concepts.
Another reason to slowplay is that you basically have all the good cards that are coordinated with the flop and any action would chase out your opponent, for example holding JJ and flopping JJ2. There are very few hands that your opponent would call with (one is 22, maybe A2, but not much else), so any bet will likely drive him out. You may want to wait is this situation to let him catch a card on the turn.
Without these conditions, I wouldn't attempt a slowplay, especially not on a great board like this where you can charge flush draws AND get paid off by any ace.

[ QUOTE ]

I have 20 chips invested theres only sixty in the pot if the board becomes to scary I can easily lay it down.


[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have anything invested. Don't think this way. The amount you have put into the pot shouldn't really affect your decisions on later streets. Thinking otherwise will cost you lots of money. Controlling the pot size is important, yet completely different than "investing"

[ QUOTE ]

I checked the turn because I didnt have to fear any draws. And Im now hopong to bust someone with an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm the flush draw is still out there, and if you suspected a ace was out there you should've bet the flop.

[ QUOTE ]

But when I guy makes a bet like that it makes u revaluate how strong your hand actaully is.


[/ QUOTE ]

When a guy makes a bet of like 400 or 500 into a pot of like 40 or 50, I assume that he's just a big retard who has 2 cards and decided to commit his stack to stealing a pot. Maybe he has an Ace, but if he has any kind of hand, he's a moron for giving YOU free cards to possibly make your hand.

I don't think the villain's bet here is good at all (either as a bluff or a value bet).

[ QUOTE ]

Flop and turn play aside what are your thoughts on the river should I have folded pushed or called?

[/ QUOTE ]

Push. You're playing a donk $22 player who bets huge into tiny pots AND you're holding a full-house.

[illegit]

In addition a bet when checked to in position is often not respected as it's a steal position. This is the absolute perfect flop/position to be betting your hand and potentially winning a huge pot. If you hit the same flop OOP I could see perhaps checking the flop, but in position it's quite terrible.

[lem45216]

See page 144 of The Theory of Poker for the general requirements of slowplaying and why this didn't meet them.

But yeah at this level im certainly putting in probably a pot sized bet on the flop because i don't like that flush draw for a start and making another big bet on the turn if called and then theres no way i'm laying down any full house at the $22s its just too much -EV.

[jeffraider]

This is an easy fold preflop if you're going to play like such a pansy when you hit your set.

[roxtar]

[ QUOTE ]
Im trying to win a big pot here early but I can easily get away from this if the board become to scary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trying to win a big pot by checking two sreets in a row? ummmmm I'm no Doyle Brunson but that just doesn't make any sense to me. And exactly HOW scary could this board become so as to make you lay down your full house?

[Ixnert]

Didn't need to read your post, the answer to your title question is "oh my god, you must be kidding me...". It's a $22. You have a full house. No, you don't fold, I don't care what the betting is. If you lose, congratulate the winner on his hand and start up a new tournament. I guarantee you you're ahead 90%+ of the time. Even on my last $22, if losing knocks me out of poker forever, I can't get my chips in fast enough.

Looking at the actual hand: bet the flop -- anyone with an ace is coming along, along with a lot of flush draws and quite likely, plenty of other stuff if you don't bet too big.

Once you've bet the flop, I don't mind either a check or a bet on the turn -- anyone with an ace is coming along anyway, but a check might just induce a bluff from someone who wouldn't have come along otherwise.

On the river, like I said, you're good 90% of the time. Bet if it's checked to you, raise if it's bet to you, just do whatever seems likely to get the most chips in. If you play afraid with a hand like this...you may be a winning player, but you're nowhere near as big a winner as you could be, because a large part of your game needs to be maximizing your take from your monster hands, even if that means you chance going broke with them now and then.

[valenzuela]

WTF are u talking about ...in fact never fold a FH ever again if u are only using 3 community cards.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF are u talking about ...in fact never fold a FH ever again if u are only using 3 community cards.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your cards: 22
Board: AAAKQ
Action: UTG allin, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds.

[illegit]

LOL. Yeah, I think low PP w/ trips on board would be the exception, or maybe 22 on a JTJT2 board and against action, but this general principle is not a bad one.

[tjh]

If the original poster is still reading this here is some advice.

Your opponents do NOT play like you do. Well in the opinion of some of the members of this forum they just might play like "you" /images/graemlins/smile.gif Just kidding.

All joking aside and this advice applies to any of us but the veterans probably have it figured out.

"Your opponents do not play like you do !!" If you think that THEY think like you da and are pulling the same move as you are then you are playing against "yourself" and that game is very hard to win.

You are slowplaying here, you suspect them of slowplaying here. So your attempt to slowplay is doomed to fail because when the villian does what you want them to do which is bet, you fold. Slow playing works when they bet and you call. Not that slowplaying is valid in a SNG accept when HU.

Assuming that they play like you do is so counterproductive. You need to stop it.

Thinking about what they might have and what they might do is productive but once again even that can be overdone. It is better to study what they have done in the past and take advice from this forum about what the fish do than to try and figure out how they think.

My summation of fish behavior goes something like this.
"Fish like to pay for the pleasure of watching cards turn over, they pay for flops, they pay for turns , they pay for rivers."

Make them pay to see the cards !!

--
tjh

[pokerlaw]

haven't read the other posts, but i am sure that several of them have noted that your not betting the flop or turn was pretty friggen bad.

i would push the river, you butchered the hand so far, so gambol and go for broke, hoping to beat AJ or something.

[adanthar]

You should get together with the other guy that just discovered slowplaying and take each other on in a GRAND HEADS UP MATCH FOR THE BEST PLAYER EVER.

I'd pay for a recording of every hand. Seriously.

[Newt_Buggs]

I agree with adanthar

[curtains]

Why does this thread get 5 pages of responses?

[ QUOTE ]

Why does this thread get 5 pages of responses?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because everyone knows the answer for once

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]


Why it is wrong to slowplay this set:

1. There is a flushdraw on the flop. You are giving the others infinite odds to hit a flush that will beat your set.

2. There is a straightdraw on this flop. You are giving the others infinite odds to hit a straight that will beat your set.

3. By not betting this flop and turn the pot is only 60 chips on the river. How on earth are you planning to make a lot of chips when the pot is so tiny on the river?

And of course you have to call this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Freudian is right on as usual... And you have the low set... it is less likely, but I have seen it often enough that pocket 7's, 9's and A's will beat your @$$ with a higher boat/4 kind... and you're giving them free cards

[Manque]

[ QUOTE ]
Because everyone knows the answer for once

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[ QUOTE ]

Why does this thread get 5 pages of responses?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, thats why I finally viewed this thread....it's been on the front page for a while now. I must admit though curtains, your post is weak-tight; throw out some aggresive slang words and belittlements /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

Why does this thread get 5 pages of responses?

[/ QUOTE ]

I post because I get flashbacks to my first posts on 2+2 where I was afraid to cap every street with AA on a AJJ flop because someone might have JJ.

I have been like the OP and it was horrible playing poker being afraid that everyone else has the nuts. It was great for me that I was berated for my sillyness back then since the mental roadblock really prevents any kind of development as a player.

Wussies need tough love.

PS: you really should change your forum preferences to fit more than 10 posts/page.

[DeathbySuckout]

Not just to help you with this hand, but your entire game:

You, my friend, are a results oriented player. You are posting this hand to see if you could have lost less with this hand, when in fact the people here are trying to tell you how to win more. And when I say this hand, I don't mean this particular hand, I mean this situation. I mean the situation that will keep coming up, the longer you play poker.
If this situation comes up 50 times in the next month, you will win more times than you will loose. What everyone is saying is that as long as you are getting your chips in with the best of it, every time the situation comes up, you are way ahead at the end of the month.

You will not win every one of these 50 situations. But odds dictate you will win more than you will loose.

One of the biggest things you have got to not just learn, but practice, is that you have to beat the villain to the pot with your chips when you are ahead.

As long as you're playing the $22s, please don't ever think about folding a boat when you are hiding the set.

Good Luck

[Freudian]

Found it (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=650894&amp;Forum= ,,,f21,,,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=3&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main=650894 &amp;Search=true&amp;where=sub&amp;Name=8142&amp;daterange=1&amp;newer val=120&amp;newertype=w&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev= #Post650894) (Sensitive persons should not read it because it is brutal). I had a lot of wuss tendencies back then and even today I get the urge to fold when I shouldn't from time to time.

[valenzuela]

..ty u for the detail.
U should never fold a FH when u are using 3 community cards and nobody can beat u with just ONE pocket card.

[ QUOTE ]

Why does this thread get 5 pages of responses?

[/ QUOTE ]I resisted reading the thread for a while because anyone who writes "should I of" rates to be asking a stupid question. With all the responses, I decided to check it out. I was right: a question even I could answer confidently.

This is very very bad. Bet, raise, do stuff!

If you consider folding here, it's because you're a bad poker player and probably shouldn't be playing, unless you're playing the bodog $5.50s.

[ QUOTE ]
Found it (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=650894&amp;Forum= ,,,f21,,,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=3&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main=650894 &amp;Search=true&amp;where=sub&amp;Name=8142&amp;daterange=1&amp;newer val=120&amp;newertype=w&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev= #Post650894) (Sensitive persons should not read it because it is brutal). I had a lot of wuss tendencies back then and even today I get the urge to fold when I shouldn't from time to time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus... make that warning a little stronger for the love of god /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Glad to see you've improved tremendously.

[lastchance]

Sometimes, I will find that slowplaying can be useful and a good idea.

Other times, it's just bad.

Bet the flop, bet the turn, raise the river.

You have a full house that beats trip Aces with a King kicker. Raise the river.

There's a flush and straight draw on the flop, and your bet doesn't mean anything signifigant: bet the flop.

I can see checking the turn, but I just don't like it much.

Slowplaying here sucks. Don't do it.