Aces Cracked!

[NutFlop]

I'm a newb to this forum and holdem too for that matter. I'm wondering if I played this correctly though.

Yesterday, at the Palms, 2/4 game. I play pretty tight because I'm not confident in my skills yet. I get red Aces UTG+1. UTG limps, I raise, call, fold, call, rest fold to BB who calls, UTG calls.

Flop comes J /forums/images/icons/club.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

BB checks, UTG checks, I bet, fold, call, BB and UTG fold. Just me and the MP player who seems to be a regular and must have noticed my tight play by now.

Turn comes J /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

I bet, he raises, I reraise, he calls.

River comes 3 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

His action on the turn scared me, so I checked, he bet and I called to see his J /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif .

Bummer. Advice?
Thank you

[RockLobster]

Hi Nut--

The only surprise is that he didn't make it 4-bets on the turn. If I'm him, I'm thinking that you raised pre-flop, then bet the flop, so you have overcards or a big pair. Once the 2nd jack hits the turn (and I'm holding one), I can't see any hand that you have that beats mine. So I would go 4+ bets heads-up on the turn.

Bummer. Advice?

You played fine... as far as advice goes, continue to post questionable hands and read 2+2 daily. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[Ulysses]

What did you think he had when he raised the turn after calling the flop?

[NutFlop]

I thought he had a jack, I thought it was worth seeing the river though.

[hutz]

If you put him on a J, why did you 3-bet the turn? You're lucky he didn't pop you again on the turn!

[tekksan]

Ususally, when you've shown nothing but strength and you get popped on the turn, you usually are behind if all you have is top pair or an overpair. The only logical thing your opponent could have is a J here. I'd probably call his raise on the turn and hope to catch my 2 outer...not even sure if that would be justified considering the pot odds.

[NutFlop]

This seems to be the third or fourth time this happened to me. I put somebody on something that beats me and I turn out to be right. I just hate giving up a good hand when I'm deep into the pot. I guess this is a leak I need to fix, but was it so bad to want to see the river?

[JTG51]

I think you are missing the point. Nobody is saying you should have folded (although you can certainly make that argument). They are questioning your 3-bet on the turn. If you think you are beat, but you want to see the river, it makes sense to thy and see it as cheaply as possible, doesn't it? You could have called his raise then called the river bet and saved youself a big bet, or even check called the turn and saved yourself 2 big bets if you really wanted to see the river.

[JTG51]

I'd probably call his raise on the turn and hope to catch my 2 outer...not even sure if that would be justified considering the pot odds.

If you know he has a J, giving you only two outs then you are definitely not getting the odds to call. When the opponent raised, NutFlop was getting about 7-1 pot odds. His chances of hitting an A on the river are 23-1

[tekksan]

Yeah, I know...what I meant was if it were me, I'd have a similar hard time as our hero letting go of those Aces and since he bet and was then raised, I'd probably call the extra BB and see the river which I'd check/fold. I think I was just trying to say, it's hard to let those Aces go. (something I'm working on myself)...

[TruePoker CEO]

Good post because you did allow him leeway to call down the regular player.

A regular 2-4 player in Las Vegas is often going to raise you with QQ or KK or even J-A. Calling him down, not raising would have seemed best in hindsight.

If our guy learns not to pay-off those extra 1 or 2 Big Bets, he will eventually get the best of this single jack X caller.

That's just my opinion, but I play bad.

[bernie]

what do you think he's raising the turn with?

when im raised here, im calling. not reraising.

b

[anatta]

Players do a lot of tricky things heads-up so once you are raised on the turn here, you can consider calling him down, but folding is certainly reasonable. In a multiway pot, it is much more likely the opponent has trips here, so you can safely fold.

You might consider reading HEPAP, the part where they say in general to check hands with outs and to bet hands with no outs. The idea is when you are raised, you can safely fold. (not 3-bet! /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif )

[Schmed]

Not defending the turn raise but seeing him down, especially if it's early or if you have been folding a lot, may be a good idea even if you know you are going to lose. This being online it may be different but at the B&M people see that as weakness and will try and run over you making life a little more difficult.

[NutFlop]

I'm glad I got such a good response on my first post. Thanks all.

NutFlop

[Zag]

I generally agree with the consensus that you should bet out on the turn, then fold to the raise. What else could he be raising with other than a jack, or perhaps a slow-played flopped set that has just become a full house.

This point seems generally overlooked in the resposes so far: Notice that this guy called two bets cold preflop with J6s! So just make sure you keep your cool and get his money over the long run.