10/20 Pocket Eights Turn. Ugh.

[bobbyi]

Does anyone check this turn? Fold to the raise? Fold the river? I hate giving a free card if I'm ahead here, but I also hate getting check-raised. If I get check-raised, I hate calling down because I could be drawing dead. I also hate folding. Ugh.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, SB <font color="green">(31/20/1.6/35)</font> completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

[ArturiusX]

Bet the turn every time.

I fold to the raise. Look at sb, he's cold called all hand, and now suddenly loves it once the draws come through. I just give it up.

[krishanleong]

I'm not feeling well today.

Krishan

[Lmn55d]

I really think you should be raising Preflop here, especially with a tight player in the sb who you can usually knock out.

The turn is a tought spot I guess. If your opponent is solid you can lay it down. Without a read I might call down if I think the opponent is capable of checkraising a big diamond or lower pair. You do have 2 outs against a flush, straight or trips, and some straight outs against trips. Once you get to the river you have to call imo.

Oh, and you have to bet the turn without a diamond.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]


he has a gutshot.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

And this changes what?

[Lmn55d]

i'd value his 2 8 outs a lot higher than gutshot outs.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


he has a gutshot.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]



And this changes what?

[/ QUOTE ]

pot is 8.5 BB. You like folding 6 outs there?

Krishan

[ArturiusX]

Is that a joke?

[kidcolin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


he has a gutshot.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]



And this changes what?

[/ QUOTE ]

pot is 8.5 BB. You like folding 6 outs there?

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the chance you're up against a flush, or that the 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif might give him the flush, or that you might split if a 7 comes off, I'd say it's more like 2 or 3 outs. I fold.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
pot is 8.5 BB. You like folding 6 outs there?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok. So then I should have folded the river once I missed those outs?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pot is 8.5 BB. You like folding 6 outs there?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok. So then I should have folded the river once I missed those outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, except I misread your outs. It's more like 4.

Krishan

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, except I misread your outs. It's more like 4.

[/ QUOTE ]
So then I should have checked the turn? I think four outs is exactly the point where it is right to "check with outs" on the turn because it is the point where getting raised hurts the most because I am just barely too weak to call.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, except I misread your outs. It's more like 4.

[/ QUOTE ]
So then I should have checked the turn? I think four outs is exactly the point where it is right to "check with outs" on the turn because it is the point where getting raised hurts the most because I am just barely too weak to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. There are two opponents and they have a lot of outs against you that they may fold if you bet.

Krishan

[odawg09090]

NT

This is not a spot to raise with a medium PP. There are already two callers. Why not just call, put the min in the pot and have correct odds on hitting a set. By raising you will still usually need to hit a set to take the pot down, but now you have put 2 SB instead of 1 and there will be less people to extract money from post flop.

[Lmn55d]

[ QUOTE ]
By raising you will still usually need to hit a set to take the pot down

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this is untrue.