My $1000 hand! (lc)

This is the hand that put me over $1000 for my party poker bankroll, on September 7, 2005. No, it's not a thousand-dollar hand, but it put me over the $1K mark for the first time! At the very least, I hope this inspires slight winning SSNL players to reach the same goal. Press on!

I'm sure nobody cares but I think it's cool to know what hand put you over a "milestone". My next update will be at $2k.

#Game No : 2672987024
***** Hand History for Game 2672987024 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, September 07, 21:54:58 EDT 2005
Table Table 36715 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 3: HERO ( $56.65 )
Seat 6: CrazyChan ( $19.22 )
Seat 5: ervin1022 ( $54.20 )
Seat 4: DofLG ( $18.05 )
Seat 1: chpnaprayer ( $17.40 )
ervin1022 posts small blind [$0.10].
CrazyChan posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Qc As ]
chpnaprayer folds.
HERO raises [$0.50].
DofLG folds.
ervin1022 calls [$0.40].
CrazyChan calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 3h, Ac ]
ervin1022 checks.
CrazyChan checks.
HERO bets [$1].
ervin1022 calls [$1].
CrazyChan folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ]
ervin1022 checks.
HERO bets [$1.50].
ervin1022 calls [$1.50].
** Dealing River ** [ Ks ]
ervin1022 checks.
HERO bets [$2].
ervin1022 calls [$2].
HERO shows [ Qc, As ] two pairs, aces and kings.
ervin1022 doesn't show [ Jd, 6d ] two pairs, kings and jacks.
HERO wins $10 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and kings.


This put me at $1000.92, up from my $100 deposit back in January! My roll was never over $274 until early July, when I switched from the hell that is "7-people-to-a-flop" .5/1 limit and $5+$1 3-table NL SNG's and discovered the profitability of 25nl 6-max. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I'd gotten up to $980 a couple weeks ago then moved up to NL50 and got hit hard (maybe b/c I was cursed for moving up with only 19.6 buy-in's instead of 20? lol) then went back down to NL25 and took horrendous bad beats and was at $764 just 2 weeks ago then I got up to $994 three nights ago... only to go on a 200+bb downswing that sent me to $940.

I started to think that psychologically, I couldn't break the 4-digit barrier but I did last night and I'm probably overly excited but hey who cares?

I'm now giving NL50 another go and logged 350 hands tonight and was -$13, but I felt a lot more comfortable throwing larger bets out than I did my first "callup". This run includes me getting stacked with KK heads up vs. QJ on a JxJ flop... groan. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Flame away if you dislike my play of the hand...this was during a 3-tabling so I'm sure I wasn't playing it optimally. Oh, yvesaint will flame me for minraising preflop /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[crosse91]

congrats on breaking the 1k mark!!! seriously i was extremely excited when i did this too.


However, in between 1k and 2k, post some hands for discussion- i swear it'll make you at least 5x the player you are today.


ps.i started in january too, seems so long ago doesn't it?

Well, anything that makes me 5x the player I am today will certainly help.

I should hit 2K within a couple months. I was at $550 on August 8th, and thus, made $450 in exactly 1 month at the 25Nl tables (2-4 tabling). This last month is the first time I really started grinding away, averaging probably 300-400 hands per day. I don't get to play much due to my 9-5, my full-time girlfriend, baseball season, 13 vacation days thrown in there since January and the fact that I just straight up didn't play for like 3 weeks in late July/early August when I was in the process of moving.

I wasted a crapload of time when I first started playing .5/1 limit, too. What a waste. I'm just not the same at limit as No limit, plus trying to "learn" to play limit on party's .5/1 is just pointless, IMO. I've basically grinded from about $200 up to $1000 since late June.

Now that I'm at NL50, like I said, $2k shouldn't be more than a couple months away.

Since you asked, here's a hand from memory last night:

Opponent (villain) two seats to my right has been seemingly raising often PF, and betting on any flop...taking down a lot of pots. He hasn't been here long, but I get the impression that he thinks he can "bully the table". We each have about $50 to start the hand.

Cut to my hand UTG... I get KK. BB is .50, I raise 4.5xbb to $2.25 (b/c the only other guy raising PF was villain so I didn't want to kill all the action by raising more than 4xbb, especially from UTG). Folds around to villain in the SB, who calls the extra $2. BB folds.

($5 pot) Flop is J6J (two diamonds). He checks, I bet out $3. He calls. Turn card is an Q (non-diamond). ($11 pot). He checks, I fire out $4. He raises to $10 (leaving him about $35 left).

At this point I paused and thought things through...I gave him credit for being the type of opponent who would try to represent trips that he can fairly safely assume I don't have. Maybe his goal is to C/R this turn, getting a call from me, and then he'll push any river since he had plenty left to buy the pot? I also figured he may have a strong flush draw, and was trying to build the pot now in case he hits the river, b/c he may not get great action from me on the river if another diamond falls. Also, he could be putting me on AK continuation bets..

At any rate, all of these thoughts went through my head and I figured the chance that he has a Jack is slim. So I pushed all in over the top (in case HE has an A, I don't want him to see the river).

He called and showed QJoff to take down the $100 pot. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

What did I do wrong here? I berated him for calling a raise PF heads up with QJ off, and his reply was, "You need to raise to $5 on this table"

WTF??

[wtfsvi]

Check behind on the turn and don't berate villain for doing stuff you want him to continue doing.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
I berated him for calling a raise PF heads up with QJ off

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont do this. As one who struggles with not doing it, its pointless.

[ QUOTE ]
and his reply was, "You need to raise to $5 on this table"

[/ QUOTE ]

That isnt an entirely bad point on his part. If too many people are calling your "standard raise" than take it up a notch. Also, dont you want QJo calling you when you raise with KK?

[Rasputin]

[ QUOTE ]
($5 pot) Flop is J6J (two diamonds). He checks, I bet out $3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't you want to bet more here? If a guy calls, how do you know he doesn't just have a flush draw? If you bet the pot or more wouldn't you reduce the likelihood of someone calling with just a draw so you can better put him on a more dangerous hand?

Do I want to push out a flush draw on this flop? He's going to hit it about 1/3 of the time by the river, and we're playing heads up so any call he makes is -EV for him. Plus, if he makes his flush and I boat up, I probably stack him.

But yes, his suggestion was that I bet $6 on the $5 flop-pot

[JustToast]

Congrats on making it up to NL50.

Why thank you. I've logged over 1k hands up here in the past, but I don't plan on moving back down again.

I'm in A-ball now, I don't want to demote myself back down to the Rookie League!

[PokerFink]

When you have an overpair to a paired board that contains a high pair and a rag (such as the JJ6 in this scenario), your goal is to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. In position, the best way to accomplish this is to make a standard bet on the flop, check behind on the turn and call a river bet.

Checking behind on the turn has several advantages. First, it keeps your opponent from checkraising. Second, it keeps the pot small, which keeps any potential river bet from your opponent small. Third, it hides the strength of your hand, which induces your opponent to bluff the river. This is why you should call a river bet.

If the board has a lower pair and a high card (such as 44Q), you can play a bit more aggressively since your opponent will likely call down with a queen, and it is less likely that he has trips. In this situation, a bet on the turn would be good.

[Maulik]

what's with the min raise of AQ PREFLOP?
& 1/2 pot bet on the flop OOP w/ 2 suits up?

I don't like the way you played this at all.

[Rasputin]

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, if he makes his flush and I boat up, I probably stack him.

[/ QUOTE ]

True enough, but if he hits the flush on the turn, you have four outs to the boat or quads with only one card to come.

[ QUOTE ]
Do I want to push out a flush draw on this flop? He's going to hit it about 1/3 of the time by the river, and we're playing heads up so any call he makes is -EV for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you? If you give him a 1/3 chance of taking the pot from you without charging him more than a third of the pot for the chance, isn't that EV+ for him?

You're right, I always seem to forget about whats already in the pot when I bet! I need to improve on this.

I minraised b/c I was entering the pot after 1 fold and only 3 opponents left. I know a lot of people hate this move, but I hate killing the action with too large of a raise.

[elus2]

why would you want to enter a pot multiway with a hand like AQ. make a healthy raise to try to get it heads up and fire a continuation bet on friendly looking boards.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]
I minraised b/c I was entering the pot after 1 fold and only 3 opponents left. I know a lot of people hate this move, but I hate killing the action with too large of a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

3xBB does not kill action. If you think 3xBB raise pre-flop kills action with 3 people behind you, you need to rethink your pre-flop actions. Or table selection.

You'd be surprised at how often a small raise like this folds around. It's hard to find the happy medium. It's either raise 6xbb and get 2 callers, or raise 3xbb and fold around... /images/graemlins/confused.gif Not all the time, but sometimes. The amount I raise is VERY table dependent (for obvious reasons).

[elus2]

over a significant statistical sample how often will you be able to fold out all the limpers with a min-raise in this spot. increasing your raise amount makes it harder for them to call and increases your chance at getting a heads-up pot. in a heads-up situation, your hand has a good chance of being stronger than your opponent's and firing a continuation bet allows you to take a 10bb+ pot a good portion of the time. compare this to just minraising and hitting top pair or some other relatively marginal hand in a multiway pot where you can't ascertain your opponents' range of holdings with any degree of confidence. there so many more ways for things to go bad in the latter situation.

[ QUOTE ]
over a significant statistical sample how often will you be able to fold out all the limpers with a min-raise in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not the point. Usually I raise more than this. My point was that it's table dependent.

"Over a significant statistical sample", I raise more than this. This was one hand at one table on one night.

Point taken, though.

[BigBiceps]

[ QUOTE ]

Cut to my hand UTG... I get KK. BB is .50, I raise 4.5xbb to $2.25 (b/c the only other guy raising PF was villain so I didn't want to kill all the action by raising more than 4xbb, especially from UTG). Folds around to villain in the SB, who calls the extra $2. BB folds.

($5 pot) Flop is J6J (two diamonds). He checks, I bet out $3. He calls. Turn card is an Q (non-diamond). ($11 pot). He checks, I fire out $4. He raises to $10 (leaving him about $35 left).

At this point I paused and thought things through...I gave him credit for being the type of opponent who would try to represent trips that he can fairly safely assume I don't have. Maybe his goal is to C/R this turn, getting a call from me, and then he'll push any river since he had plenty left to buy the pot? I also figured he may have a strong flush draw, and was trying to build the pot now in case he hits the river, b/c he may not get great action from me on the river if another diamond falls. Also, he could be putting me on AK continuation bets..

At any rate, all of these thoughts went through my head and I figured the chance that he has a Jack is slim. So I pushed all in over the top (in case HE has an A, I don't want him to see the river).

He called and showed QJoff to take down the $100 pot. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

What did I do wrong here? I berated him for calling a raise PF heads up with QJ off, and his reply was, "You need to raise to $5 on this table"

WTF??

[/ QUOTE ]

The answer to WTF is ... you put in $2.25 into the pot with the best hand and $48 into the pot with the worst hand. He definitely has the odds to play QJo vs KK if he can get you to do this.

Unfortunately the betting increment increases during each subsequent street..

Using your creedo, I should have just pushed all in PF, that way I would have put $50 in with the best hand.

Kudos for some helpful tidbits.

Congratulations on making $1000.

ty, ty...my goal is to "never go broke", and just build it until I'm ready to start a family. If I could pay cash for a home, that would be a vnh.

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately the betting increment increases during each subsequent street..

Using your creedo, I should have just pushed all in PF, that way I would have put $50 in with the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

BigBiceps was making an excellent point.

If I can stack your kings every time I outdraw you with a hand like QJ, it is correct to call the preflop raise with QJ. The implied odds make it a good call, since the QJ is getting implied odds of 25:1.

This is why you play small pairs against big pairs for a preflop raise, the implied odds make it correct to try and flop a set.

Don't get hung-up on preflop play. There are many different correct ways to play preflop, and if you play well post-flop, preflop becomes almost irrelevant.

[ QUOTE ]

If I can stack your kings every time I outdraw you with a hand like QJ, it is correct to call the preflop raise with QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right...but I haven't given this guy any reason to think he can stack me. I hadn't even been at the table for 30 minutees.

With no real read on me, would you have called an extra $2 in the SB with QJ off?

Aside from all this he had the gaul to call me a fish, and another guy told me I "fell in love with my KK. Overplayed it bigtime". I explained to them my reasoning for the push and I guess they couldn't fathom any of it. They expected me to see a pair on the board and turtle up. I quickly re-bought and challenged them to prove that I'm a fish. I was berating them so hard that I blew on 5 pots and everyone folded. I told the table "Wow I must be getting respect to not be getting action on these flops..what's wrong, nobody wants to play me now?"

Whether or not he was right and I was wrong or I was right and he was wrong, I lambasted this guy bigtime after he told me he'd "gladly take all my money again". Within 15 minutes I was up to $100 (back to even) and each of the two guys that berated me promptly left the table (both after saying that I was a huge fish and they want to play me until I lose all my money again).

I just found it quite comical. Regardless of whether I misplayed the hand, it was funny to see guys talk S to me then leave when I take over the table captaincy AFTER going bust.

[PokerFink]

I think you're totally missing the point.

The dude with QJ played his hand fine. Sure, it's questionable calling QJo out of position, but it's preflop; preflop isn't that important. Flop play is far more important than preflop play, and you did not play this flop well. You really have no business berating a player who got all the money in as a 9-1 favorite.

Besides, you shoulden't berate players to begin with. It accomplishes nothing.

He played "this" hand fine because he hit a miracle flop. 9 times out of 10 this "play" by him is -EV. Don't tell me you routinely call 4.5xbb raises from UTG with QJ off HU.

Imagine all the times he calls this, hits top pair on the flop, and pays me all the way down. It just sucks that we ran into eachother the 1 time he outflopped me like crazy. I'd be glad if he calls my raises with QJ everytime. I didn't berate him until he started with this whole "you way overplayed your hand" shyt.

Not to mention the fact that there's a possibility BB wakes up with a hand and re-raises PF. It's not like he was closing the betting.

Anyway, it's done with. I donked off a buy-in. Not like that's never happened before. H.ell I've gotten stacked with KK 4 times in the last week. Thrice getting it all in PF against AA, the other time was this hand.

Let's just say I'm not too happy with my Kings lately. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't berate him until he started with this whole "you way overplayed your hand" shyt.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was right. Do you routinely berate other players who are correct?

The berating isn't even the most important thing. The most important thing is that you understand the concept of implied odds, because it's the underlying concept to this hand.

Many of the best players on this forum seek out opponents who overplay hands and lose their stack with big pairs on flops like JJ6, and then call their preflop raises with any two looking to make two pair or trips. They use implied odds to their advantage. If you don't learn how manage pot sizes on a board like JJ6, you will have trouble as you move up in stakes.

Try to not get defensive every time another poster gives you constructive criticism; listening is the best way to learn.

I hear what you are saying. Had I just said "Hmm, JJ6 board... I have KK...I'm pushing in". Yeah, that is overplaying. But with all the reads I had on him, and all the "incomplete information" I had, I didn't think I overplayed the hand. I put him on an Ax and I think he put me on unpaired overcards so I didn't want him to see the river without paying.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think you should look at someone going bust with on overpair and just simply say "He overplayed it". On the surface, yes, I did, b/c I lost a buy-in. But in reality you need to play overpairs like QQ and KK strong. Many times I'll get called here by some shmuck with A6, AK, AQ, QQ, TT... etc. AA or Jx is really all I'm worried about.

But point taken.

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
Many times I'll get called here by some shmuck with A6, AK, AQ, QQ, TT... etc. AA or Jx is really all I'm worried about.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think your play with your KK was horrible. He check raised you and you pushed in case he was making a play on you? Who will call you here? Maybe a few donks with just a queen or a smaller pair but mostly only players with a jack. Once he has re-raised you I think you can pop him back with a smallish re-raise then you can better assess where you are at. When betting you are either betting for value, information, pot control or as a bluff. Your push achieved none of this.

I have been stacked a few times with hands like AA or KK on these type of boards, but have since learnt from them and although I still wont give the pot up easy I do not want to lose a huge pot when my opponents hand is staring me in the face.

I think you should have gone defensive in this pot and IMO you did vastly overplay your hand.

Congrats on the $1k milestone though!

[CourtesyFlush]

Congrats on the 1k, but honestly I think your game has a long way to go. No offense but you've shown quite a bit of immaturity in your posts. Never berate players at the table, ever. If they berate you, say nothing and post the hand here to see if what they are saying is correct. You opponent was right that you way overplayed the KK hand. You bet the turn, which I think was a bad move, and then you reraised allin when you put the player on a bluff? If your read was a bluff, the correct play is to call turn and let them possibly bluff again. It is not rational to reraise allin to protect against 3 ace outs. I don't think your 1k hand was played well either. You may want to stop getting so defensive with criticism because there is a good chance if you don't listen you will never be able to profit beyond $50NL.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Many times I'll get called here by some shmuck with A6, AK, AQ, QQ, TT... etc. AA or Jx is really all I'm worried about.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think your play with your KK was horrible. He check raised you and you pushed in case he was making a play on you? Who will call you here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? A call here by a worse hand wouldn't even rank in the top quintile of crap play one sees on a daily basis, right? We all see this stuff... I agree that he fell in love with his hand, but it wasn't that bad.

What's your beef with the 1K hand? Just curious. If someone says I misplayed a hand, I'd like to know how.

Plus, please don't judge me by 2 hands I've posted out of 20,000+ played. I don't think it's very fair to either of us. I do need to work on not berating players. I've always had a tough time controlling my temper.

[CourtesyFlush]

[ QUOTE ]
What's your beef with the 1K hand? Just curious. If someone says I misplayed a hand, I'd like to know how.

Plus, please don't judge me by 2 hands I've posted out of 20,000+ played. I don't think it's very fair to either of us. I do need to work on not berating players. I've always had a tough time controlling my temper.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the 1k hand, I didn't like the minraise. I know you said it was "game dependant" but if your regular sized raises are getting too much respect, the correct play is to start raising more hands, not to raise less. I probably would have checked the turn behind instead of betting such a small amount compared to the pot. Also on the river I think that's a pretty thin value bet, one that you need a read to make. Usually if you're making that small of a bet on the river, it is better to check because it looks weak and someone may come over the top with nothing and cause you to have to fold the best hand.

[amoeba]

I hate both hands. you seem to base your raise amounts on your holdings. you are easy to read and you bet when the only likely hands that would call you beat you. also, at this level, pot control is much much more important than "read" based play.

good job getting to 1000 but please take the advice of everybody who criticized your play. the guy with QJ did nothing wrong. you say 9 times out of 10 he doesn't get lucky on the flop. you are correct. look at how much you dropped after the flop compared to your preflop raise amount that he had to call, was it 10 times more than what he had to call preflop? if yes then you misplayed.

[ QUOTE ]
look at how much you dropped after the flop compared to your preflop raise amount that he had to call, was it 10 times more than what he had to call preflop? if yes then you misplayed.

[/ QUOTE ]

That isn't necessarily correct. You can't just say b/c 9 times out of 10 I'm way ahead that I can't lose more than $20 when I'm behind...You aren't taking into account all the times he pays me off (when he's way behind) with all the other hands I listed. Remember, this is Party 25nl.