Hand against very good 2+2er, party 20/40

[DeathDonkey]

2+2er in the BB is a very good player, I don't think he knows who I am. I probably have a TAG image but he is 6 tabling so who knows what he noticed. Oh, and I've never played 20/40 before.

Is this a cap preflop? I didn't think I was in great shape against most of his 3 betting hands out of the BB. I thought on the flop either I can raise now and hope to get called down, or raise the turn and risk him folding or on the rare chance I'm behind getting 3 bet and having to pay off. I also considered calling the flop and turn and raising the river but I dismissed that quickly.

When the river card came he checked right away and I spent like 10 seconds thinking before I bet. Should I check here or if I do bet, should I make sure to not take time like that? Am I overthinking that?

Thanks,
DeathDonkey

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>...

[baronzeus]

I think I cap this preflop and lead the flop.

On the river, unless you think he is calling with QQ or JJ or 99 no diamond I check behind (and I don't think he is going to call with those hands)

I dont think you ever fold a better hand here.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I cap this preflop and lead the flop.

On the river, unless you think he is calling with QQ or JJ or 99 no diamond I check behind (and I don't think he is going to call with those hands)

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't lead; he's in position.

As for capping AK preflop against a 3-bet from the blinds, see my 20/40 against sfer hand from last week in SS.

[Klepton]

[ QUOTE ]

When the river card came he checked right away and I spent like 10 seconds thinking before I bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

there's your mistake

after thinking that long, if you bet, you have to call a raise.

he's 6 tabling, so he may not have noticed, but if i was paying attention ot the hand, you're getting c/red.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]

He can't lead; he's in position.

As for capping AK preflop against a 3-bet from the blinds, see my 20/40 against sfer hand from last week in SS.

[/ QUOTE ]


My mistake. Well I like to cap and bet the flop.


As far as capping goes, you have position and you have reasonably good equity against his range, so I think capping here is OK, but I don't know how much better/worse it is than just calling the 3bet with the intention of raising a good flop.

Cap preflop and auto-check the river. You're not folding any pair hand with a diamond after he called your flop raise and turn bet.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

He can't lead; he's in position.

As for capping AK preflop against a 3-bet from the blinds, see my 20/40 against sfer hand from last week in SS.

[/ QUOTE ]


My mistake. Well I like to cap and bet the flop.


As far as capping goes, you have position and you have reasonably good equity against his range, so I think capping here is OK, but I don't know how much better/worse it is than just calling the 3bet with the intention of raising a good flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think that AK has that much of an equity advantage against a blind 3-bet after Hero opens in MP1.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

He can't lead; he's in position.

As for capping AK preflop against a 3-bet from the blinds, see my 20/40 against sfer hand from last week in SS.

[/ QUOTE ]


My mistake. Well I like to cap and bet the flop.


As far as capping goes, you have position and you have reasonably good equity against his range, so I think capping here is OK, but I don't know how much better/worse it is than just calling the 3bet with the intention of raising a good flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think that AK has that much of an equity advantage against a blind 3-bet after Hero opens in MP1.

[/ QUOTE ]


It's actually slightly behind in equity with 99+ and AK+ or almost even if you include AQ type hands. I wasn't saying we have an advantage, we just have reasonably close enough equity that capping this in position can't be horrible.

[TStoneMBD]

dont like the river bet. when villain calls the river, he has to have a nondiamond 49% of the time for it to be profitable. this also doesnt consider the fact the times that he checkraises you and causes you to fold the winner. i think he will fold alot of pairs here and therefore the bet is -ev.

Curious Question. Whats wrong with just calling this all the way down, that is....never showing any aggression postflop. My thinking is if you put 3 bettor on TT-AA and AK. All we beat here is QQ or JJ, and we would never want to raise these hands since we dont want these hands to fold, and all the other hands have us beat. Given my assumption that the 3 better will fold a hand like QQ or JJ on either the flop or the turn if we raise the flop and he will reraise us with all his other holdings that beat us wouldnt just calling down here be the optimal strategy? Someone please point out the holes in my logic here, as I an really curious to hear anyones insight on this.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

He can't lead; he's in position.

As for capping AK preflop against a 3-bet from the blinds, see my 20/40 against sfer hand from last week in SS.

[/ QUOTE ]


My mistake. Well I like to cap and bet the flop.


As far as capping goes, you have position and you have reasonably good equity against his range, so I think capping here is OK, but I don't know how much better/worse it is than just calling the 3bet with the intention of raising a good flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think that AK has that much of an equity advantage against a blind 3-bet after Hero opens in MP1.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not just the fact that capping preflop is likely +EV even in this particular situation. It's also the fact that not capping with AK gives away way too much information. By restricting your capping range to AA/KK/QQ, you pretty much guarantee that those hands win far smaller pots than they should be winning. Capping with AK also makes it easier for you to win the hand even when you miss and when the other guy also has AK (and you both miss).

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
Curious Question. Whats wrong with just calling this all the way down, that is....never showing any aggression postflop. My thinking is if you put 3 bettor on TT-AA and AK. All we beat here is QQ or JJ, and we would never want to raise these hands since we dont want these hands to fold, and all the other hands have us beat. Given my assumption that the 3 better will fold a hand like QQ or JJ on either the flop or the turn if we raise the flop and he will reraise us with all his other holdings that beat us wouldnt just calling down here be the optimal strategy? Someone please point out the holes in my logic here, as I an really curious to hear anyones insight on this.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is wrong. You need to raise the flop because he's likely not folding any QQ, and he's definitely not folding any QQ/JJ with a diamond. He may also have other diamond draw hands.

This is all about value. If you were so far ahead that he had no hope of catching up (like if you flopped a full house or something), then I can understand using this rope-a-dope strategy. But here you need to extract value while your hand is still best. The pot is getting to be big, don't be greedy.

[Nightwish]

Cap preflop (see my other post for explanation why).

I would check behind on the river. The bottom line is that he's not calling with any hand you beat.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Curious Question. Whats wrong with just calling this all the way down, that is....never showing any aggression postflop. My thinking is if you put 3 bettor on TT-AA and AK. All we beat here is QQ or JJ, and we would never want to raise these hands since we dont want these hands to fold, and all the other hands have us beat. Given my assumption that the 3 better will fold a hand like QQ or JJ on either the flop or the turn if we raise the flop and he will reraise us with all his other holdings that beat us wouldnt just calling down here be the optimal strategy? Someone please point out the holes in my logic here, as I an really curious to hear anyones insight on this.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is wrong. You need to raise the flop because he's likely not folding any QQ, and he's definitely not folding any QQ/JJ with a diamond. He may also have other diamond draw hands.

This is all about value. If you were so far ahead that he had no hope of catching up (like if you flopped a full house or something), then I can understand using this rope-a-dope strategy. But here you need to extract value while your hand is still best. The pot is getting to be big, don't be greedy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for responding to my question, but I am still not convinced that my strategy is wrong. I believe you are right that our solid opponent will call the flop with QQ or JJ with a diamond in it, but if hes a good player he will still fold the turn if he doesnt turn a flush draw or a set. And since I dont want him to fold this holding at any point in the hand, I think calling makes more money than raising the flop since again we will only induce our opponent to fold a two outer, and he will reraise us with any hand that beats us. As far as him having a diamond draw, the villain has AdKd or AdQd, We would not want to raise the first hand for obvious reasons, and we only have a small equity edge vs the second hand. So I still think the hero makes the most money in this situation by calling down here the whole way. By calling down our hero will maximize his winnings by letting QQ and JJ bet his hand for him, and at the same time he will minimize his loss when the hero has AA,KK,TT.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Curious Question. Whats wrong with just calling this all the way down, that is....never showing any aggression postflop. My thinking is if you put 3 bettor on TT-AA and AK. All we beat here is QQ or JJ, and we would never want to raise these hands since we dont want these hands to fold, and all the other hands have us beat. Given my assumption that the 3 better will fold a hand like QQ or JJ on either the flop or the turn if we raise the flop and he will reraise us with all his other holdings that beat us wouldnt just calling down here be the optimal strategy? Someone please point out the holes in my logic here, as I an really curious to hear anyones insight on this.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is wrong. You need to raise the flop because he's likely not folding any QQ, and he's definitely not folding any QQ/JJ with a diamond. He may also have other diamond draw hands.

This is all about value. If you were so far ahead that he had no hope of catching up (like if you flopped a full house or something), then I can understand using this rope-a-dope strategy. But here you need to extract value while your hand is still best. The pot is getting to be big, don't be greedy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for responding to my question, but I am still not convinced that my strategy is wrong. I believe you are right that our solid opponent will call the flop with QQ or JJ with a diamond in it, but if hes a good player he will still fold the turn if he doesnt turn a flush draw or a set. And since I dont want him to fold this holding at any point in the hand, I think calling makes more money than raising the flop since again we will only induce our opponent to fold a two outer, and he will reraise us with any hand that beats us. As far as him having a diamond draw, the villain has AdKd or AdQd, We would not want to raise the first hand for obvious reasons, and we only have a small equity edge vs the second hand. So I still think the hero makes the most money in this situation by calling down here the whole way. By calling down our hero will maximize his winnings by letting QQ and JJ bet his hand for him, and at the same time he will minimize his loss when the hero has AA,KK,TT.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have identified only 8 hands that our hero is behind to right now (including AdKd which he's chopping with on the flop, but which has a strong redraw), so it's too early to be thinking about minimizing losses. So let's focus on maximizing gains. Our hero is ahead of AdQd and KdQd. Neither of those hands is folding before the river no matter what. In fact, KdQd is going to showdown, so hero needs to extract as much value as he can out of both of those hands. QQ and JdJx are both calling the flop raise (in fact, it's likely that any JJ is calling the flop raise). Both QdQx and JdJx are also calling the turn, and it's likely that QQ without a diamond would also call the turn. I don't know whether these hands will call the river because it varies greatly among players, but my guess is that your strategy on average wins about 1 SB less than my strategy. People simply don't fold as much as you think they do.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Curious Question. Whats wrong with just calling this all the way down, that is....never showing any aggression postflop. My thinking is if you put 3 bettor on TT-AA and AK. All we beat here is QQ or JJ, and we would never want to raise these hands since we dont want these hands to fold, and all the other hands have us beat. Given my assumption that the 3 better will fold a hand like QQ or JJ on either the flop or the turn if we raise the flop and he will reraise us with all his other holdings that beat us wouldnt just calling down here be the optimal strategy? Someone please point out the holes in my logic here, as I an really curious to hear anyones insight on this.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is wrong. You need to raise the flop because he's likely not folding any QQ, and he's definitely not folding any QQ/JJ with a diamond. He may also have other diamond draw hands.

This is all about value. If you were so far ahead that he had no hope of catching up (like if you flopped a full house or something), then I can understand using this rope-a-dope strategy. But here you need to extract value while your hand is still best. The pot is getting to be big, don't be greedy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for responding to my question, but I am still not convinced that my strategy is wrong. I believe you are right that our solid opponent will call the flop with QQ or JJ with a diamond in it, but if hes a good player he will still fold the turn if he doesnt turn a flush draw or a set. And since I dont want him to fold this holding at any point in the hand, I think calling makes more money than raising the flop since again we will only induce our opponent to fold a two outer, and he will reraise us with any hand that beats us. As far as him having a diamond draw, the villain has AdKd or AdQd, We would not want to raise the first hand for obvious reasons, and we only have a small equity edge vs the second hand. So I still think the hero makes the most money in this situation by calling down here the whole way. By calling down our hero will maximize his winnings by letting QQ and JJ bet his hand for him, and at the same time he will minimize his loss when the hero has AA,KK,TT.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have identified only 8 hands that our hero is behind to right now (including AdKd which he's chopping with on the flop, but which has a strong redraw), so it's too early to be thinking about minimizing losses. So let's focus on maximizing gains. Our hero is ahead of AdQd and KdQd. Neither of those hands is folding before the river no matter what. In fact, KdQd is going to showdown, so hero needs to extract as much value as he can out of both of those hands. QQ and JdJx are both calling the flop raise (in fact, it's likely that any JJ is calling the flop raise). Both QdQx and JdJx are also calling the turn, and it's likely that QQ without a diamond would also call the turn. I don't know whether these hands will call the river because it varies greatly among players, but my guess is that your strategy on average wins about 1 SB less than my strategy. People simply don't fold as much as you think they do.

[/ QUOTE ]
My strategy is based on the assumption that the villain will fold QQ JJ either on the flop or on the turn if they dont turn a flush draw. Given this assumption I believe my strategy makes the most money in the long run, as it minimizes the heros loss and maximizes the heros gain. When the villain does have a hand like AdQd or KdQd, the calling down strategy does lose money when compared to raising the flop, but since our edge is still small against this holding , and the villain is still not very likely to hold these hands especially KdQd given his description and his preflop action, I believe it is ok to ignore these possibilities. I understand that if the villain will not fold QQ or JJ no matter what, than the correct strategy is to raise the flop. My question was based on the times you are against the type of opponent who will fold QQ or JJ on the flop or the turn if you show aggression. Against this type of opponent I believe calling down makes the most money vs all other strategies

[steveyz]

check through the river. A good player isn't calling with a bare AT or JJ/QQ with no diamonds.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Curious Question. Whats wrong with just calling this all the way down, that is....never showing any aggression postflop. My thinking is if you put 3 bettor on TT-AA and AK. All we beat here is QQ or JJ, and we would never want to raise these hands since we dont want these hands to fold, and all the other hands have us beat. Given my assumption that the 3 better will fold a hand like QQ or JJ on either the flop or the turn if we raise the flop and he will reraise us with all his other holdings that beat us wouldnt just calling down here be the optimal strategy? Someone please point out the holes in my logic here, as I an really curious to hear anyones insight on this.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is wrong. You need to raise the flop because he's likely not folding any QQ, and he's definitely not folding any QQ/JJ with a diamond. He may also have other diamond draw hands.

This is all about value. If you were so far ahead that he had no hope of catching up (like if you flopped a full house or something), then I can understand using this rope-a-dope strategy. But here you need to extract value while your hand is still best. The pot is getting to be big, don't be greedy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for responding to my question, but I am still not convinced that my strategy is wrong. I believe you are right that our solid opponent will call the flop with QQ or JJ with a diamond in it, but if hes a good player he will still fold the turn if he doesnt turn a flush draw or a set. And since I dont want him to fold this holding at any point in the hand, I think calling makes more money than raising the flop since again we will only induce our opponent to fold a two outer, and he will reraise us with any hand that beats us. As far as him having a diamond draw, the villain has AdKd or AdQd, We would not want to raise the first hand for obvious reasons, and we only have a small equity edge vs the second hand. So I still think the hero makes the most money in this situation by calling down here the whole way. By calling down our hero will maximize his winnings by letting QQ and JJ bet his hand for him, and at the same time he will minimize his loss when the hero has AA,KK,TT.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have identified only 8 hands that our hero is behind to right now (including AdKd which he's chopping with on the flop, but which has a strong redraw), so it's too early to be thinking about minimizing losses. So let's focus on maximizing gains. Our hero is ahead of AdQd and KdQd. Neither of those hands is folding before the river no matter what. In fact, KdQd is going to showdown, so hero needs to extract as much value as he can out of both of those hands. QQ and JdJx are both calling the flop raise (in fact, it's likely that any JJ is calling the flop raise). Both QdQx and JdJx are also calling the turn, and it's likely that QQ without a diamond would also call the turn. I don't know whether these hands will call the river because it varies greatly among players, but my guess is that your strategy on average wins about 1 SB less than my strategy. People simply don't fold as much as you think they do.

[/ QUOTE ]
My strategy is based on the assumption that the villain will fold QQ JJ either on the flop or on the turn if they dont turn a flush draw. Given this assumption I believe my strategy makes the most money in the long run, as it minimizes the heros loss and maximizes the heros gain. When the villain does have a hand like AdQd or KdQd, the calling down strategy does lose money when compared to raising the flop, but since our edge is still small against this holding , and the villain is still not very likely to hold these hands especially KdQd given his description and his preflop action, I believe it is ok to ignore these possibilities. I understand that if the villain will not fold QQ or JJ no matter what, than the correct strategy is to raise the flop. My question was based on the times you are against the type of opponent who will fold QQ or JJ on the flop or the turn if you show aggression. Against this type of opponent I believe calling down makes the most money vs all other strategies

[/ QUOTE ]


I see ppl call down the flop raise with QQ all the time without improving. They all think you are making a move on them.

[andyfox]

If he's a good 2+2er, I'd have thought he likely would have bet the river with a hand you can beat. And he's unlikely to call your bet with a hand you can beat. You gotta hope he has pocket aces sans the ace of trump.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]

It's not just the fact that capping preflop is likely +EV even in this particular situation. It's also the fact that not capping with AK gives away way too much information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do we really give away much information at Party with thousands of different opponents?

I would think metagame considerations should be minimal for Party players, most decisions should be based on EV.

I would guess capping is not +EV because against typical 3-bettors, they are more likely to have a pair than a worse Ace.

[1800GAMBLER]

I doubt the 2+2er played this hand well.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Curious Question. Whats wrong with just calling this all the way down, that is....never showing any aggression postflop. My thinking is if you put 3 bettor on TT-AA and AK. All we beat here is QQ or JJ, and we would never want to raise these hands since we dont want these hands to fold, and all the other hands have us beat. Given my assumption that the 3 better will fold a hand like QQ or JJ on either the flop or the turn if we raise the flop and he will reraise us with all his other holdings that beat us wouldnt just calling down here be the optimal strategy? Someone please point out the holes in my logic here, as I an really curious to hear anyones insight on this.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is wrong. You need to raise the flop because he's likely not folding any QQ, and he's definitely not folding any QQ/JJ with a diamond. He may also have other diamond draw hands.

This is all about value. If you were so far ahead that he had no hope of catching up (like if you flopped a full house or something), then I can understand using this rope-a-dope strategy. But here you need to extract value while your hand is still best. The pot is getting to be big, don't be greedy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for responding to my question, but I am still not convinced that my strategy is wrong. I believe you are right that our solid opponent will call the flop with QQ or JJ with a diamond in it, but if hes a good player he will still fold the turn if he doesnt turn a flush draw or a set. And since I dont want him to fold this holding at any point in the hand, I think calling makes more money than raising the flop since again we will only induce our opponent to fold a two outer, and he will reraise us with any hand that beats us. As far as him having a diamond draw, the villain has AdKd or AdQd, We would not want to raise the first hand for obvious reasons, and we only have a small equity edge vs the second hand. So I still think the hero makes the most money in this situation by calling down here the whole way. By calling down our hero will maximize his winnings by letting QQ and JJ bet his hand for him, and at the same time he will minimize his loss when the hero has AA,KK,TT.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have identified only 8 hands that our hero is behind to right now (including AdKd which he's chopping with on the flop, but which has a strong redraw), so it's too early to be thinking about minimizing losses. So let's focus on maximizing gains. Our hero is ahead of AdQd and KdQd. Neither of those hands is folding before the river no matter what. In fact, KdQd is going to showdown, so hero needs to extract as much value as he can out of both of those hands. QQ and JdJx are both calling the flop raise (in fact, it's likely that any JJ is calling the flop raise). Both QdQx and JdJx are also calling the turn, and it's likely that QQ without a diamond would also call the turn. I don't know whether these hands will call the river because it varies greatly among players, but my guess is that your strategy on average wins about 1 SB less than my strategy. People simply don't fold as much as you think they do.

[/ QUOTE ]
My strategy is based on the assumption that the villain will fold QQ JJ either on the flop or on the turn if they dont turn a flush draw. Given this assumption I believe my strategy makes the most money in the long run, as it minimizes the heros loss and maximizes the heros gain. When the villain does have a hand like AdQd or KdQd, the calling down strategy does lose money when compared to raising the flop, but since our edge is still small against this holding , and the villain is still not very likely to hold these hands especially KdQd given his description and his preflop action, I believe it is ok to ignore these possibilities. I understand that if the villain will not fold QQ or JJ no matter what, than the correct strategy is to raise the flop. My question was based on the times you are against the type of opponent who will fold QQ or JJ on the flop or the turn if you show aggression. Against this type of opponent I believe calling down makes the most money vs all other strategies

[/ QUOTE ]


I see ppl call down the flop raise with QQ all the time without improving. They all think you are making a move on them.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that this is true, especially with a flush draw out there since they will automatically put you on a hand that gives them an excuse to keep calling. My strategy was based on the type of opponent who would not take QQ JJ unimproved to the river if they were shown aggression on the flop. And I believe given the description of the villain in this hand, he would not be the type of player to pay off all the way with QQ or JJ if he was raised on the flop.

[DeathDonkey]

I think its pretty easy to put him on QQ or JJ with no diamond. Why do you think he played one of these hands poorly?

-DeathDonkey

[bicyclekick]

Such a bad river bet.

[steveyz]

You really think a solid player would call the turn with QQ/JJ no diamonds? What's he hoping that you have? AT?

[PokerPrince]

Check the river.

[DeeJ]

[ QUOTE ]

I would check behind on the river. The bottom line is that he's not calling with any hand you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

[JackThree]

I just wanted to comment on the thinking part.

I have to think about a lot of my decisions, apparently I'm not as mentally quick as a lot of you guys. I get played back at some because of it. But I take a note if someone does raise me after I take a long time to bet, and I make a conscious effort to delay bet them with strong hands. I know it's a cheesy thing to do, but it works very well against a certain type of player. And once they notice I have done that it provides cover for when I have a marginally strong hand and I take a long time to bet.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
You really think a solid player would call the turn with QQ/JJ no diamonds? What's he hoping that you have? AT?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the aggressive nature of mid limit party games and that the king paired, you don't think that a non-king hand is possible?



Anyways, to OP

If the villian is "solid" per say, he probably should have folded QQ/JJ on the turn. given that he didn't, this makes hero's river bet look really bad because he's certainly not going to call it on the river.

if any money other than hero's goes into this pot, hero's money is now villian's money.

[DeeJ]

[ QUOTE ]
But I take a note if someone does raise me after I take a long time to bet, and I make a conscious effort to delay bet them with strong hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like giving a sort of 'timing' tell? Curious idea! (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=3052066&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;s b=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)

[arod15]

Cap it preflop, and I like the value bet at the end. Looks good. But I Cap it preflop. He can raise with a wide-range of hands and the raise might look like its a steal.