The Good, The Bad....The Ugly? (special blind defense edition!) [Archive]

View Full Version : The Good, The Bad....The Ugly? (special blind defense edition!)

Harv72b

09-04-2005, 07:30 AM

Another ugly night, filled with bad beats on the appropriately named Bad Beat Jackpot tables (hey, the jackpot was up over $200k, and the donks were out in full force). I caught a nice little run at the end of the session to "only" finish down about 35 BBs. But that doesn't matter...what matters is, how did I play these hands? Because to be honest, the way things have been going for me lately I'm starting to question if I ever really knew what I was doing to start with. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hand 1

Reads: First hand of the night. I don't really have reads on anyone, except that the table in general was piling up some nice pots before I got there.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

River: (8 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP3 raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 16 BB
Main Pot: 16 BB, between MP3 and Hero.

__________________________________________________ ________

Hand 2

No read on villian.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
5 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (11.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, intending to call a raise?

__________________________________________________ _________

Hand 3

Reads: Down to HU vs. a pretty mediocre player. Even when the table was full he played way too many hands, and had real trouble getting away from a big unimproved ace or pocket pair. I believe that I've gotten into his head since we got heads up by varying my play pretty much constantly, and putting a lot of pressure on him preflop.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (2 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $2.
BB raises, Hero (poster) 3-bets, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, intending to win the pot before he can suck out on the river.

As always, any and all comments or critiques are very much welcome. Usually I post 1 hand that I think I played well and 1 hand that I think I played poorly; tonight there's 1 that I think is good, 1 that I think is sorta bad, and 1 that I really can't decide about.

toss

09-04-2005, 08:09 AM

Hand 1 looks fine.

Hand 2 you need to cap that turn unless you want to checkraise the river.

Hand 3 depends on how often you think he'll fold.

oreogod

09-04-2005, 08:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 looks fine.

Hand 2 you need to cap that turn unless you want to checkraise the river.

Hand 3 depends on how often you think he'll fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur. Hand 2 cap unless u want to CR. I like capping and leading better.

brazilio

09-04-2005, 08:19 AM

Hand 1 I raise that flop and expect coldcallers aplenty at most 2/4 tables. I do that mostly because when you raise the turn to SB's continuation bet, even donks realize you've got something good.

Hand 2 maybe I'm weak or something, but I just check/call the river and I usually don't cap the turn.

Hand 3 I don't think he's the right opponent to do this against.

oreogod

09-04-2005, 08:32 AM

Whenver u get finished w/ this thread Id be curious to know what Hand 2 had (I was thinking KJ which u probably split with or maybe KT. Unless he filled up to a boat on the river there isnt much else out there I can see.

Did a quick count on that: looks close doing a count. Hand beating u 99,TT,QQ,KK,KQ,AJ = 28. Hands u are beating AK,KJ,KT,AA =36 probably discount that to 29-30ish............so its close on that river to what u want to do...whether its c/c or lead after capping the turn.

Redd

09-04-2005, 10:46 AM

Hand 1: I think is ok; there's a few decent cards that will let a typical player improve to a second best hand/draw. Pot is small.

Hand 2: I'd also cap the turn.

Hand 3: Did you read your read? [ QUOTE ]
he played way too many hands, and had real trouble getting away from a big unimproved ace or pocket pair

[/ QUOTE ]
This is really read-dependent but even if you're in his head this doesn't seem like the ideal opponent to semibluff.

SmileyEH

09-04-2005, 01:37 PM

Hand 1 is fine. I dont like hands 2 or 3. You are over thinking and fps is very real. Second hand just cap the flop while you have the pseodo nuts.

Hand 3 dont 3bet preflop. [ QUOTE ]
Down to HU vs. a pretty mediocre player. Even when the table was full he played way too many hands, and had real trouble getting away from a big unimproved ace or pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you semibluffing this player? The pot is small so he needs to fold a very high percentage of the time for raising to be better than calling.

-SmileyEH

shant

09-04-2005, 01:50 PM

Hand 1: Cool.

Hand 2: I would just cap the flop and lead. I don't like the river plan at all.

Hand 3: I don't like the preflop 3-bet.

jstewsmole

09-04-2005, 02:05 PM

1. good

2. given the way u got to the river and the board pairing, i probably just check/call the river

3. given ur read, i dont like the semi bluff C/R here.

Dagger78

09-04-2005, 02:24 PM

Hand 1 nice pot, good play.

Hand 2: I would have capped the turn and yes I'd bet-call the river. The CO could be stubborn and 3 betting without the J. If he has AJ well that happens, but every other hand you're eather spliting or are a huge favorite.

Hands 3: Do you think he's folding a pair here? And do you plan on continuing with a river bet to get him to fold an Ace or Q high? If you think there is even a small chance he'll fold I like the raise.

Harv72b

09-04-2005, 07:44 PM

Okay, guys....I thought I'd played Hand 1 pretty well, and for the most part y'all seem to agree with me. I understand the point about raising the flop & getting donkcalls, but I was new to the table so I didn't know who the donks actually were, or whether or not they were in this hand. And if there's one thing I've learned over time, it's that even donks tend to give you credit for an ace when you raise...probably because they never fold them. Anyhoo, I figured that if I raised I was only going to definitely get action from the case ace or 44...and if either of those hands were out there, they'd raise for me. I lucked out when SB checked the turn, allowing me to make the bet there. MP3 had 33 for the runner runner straight, and MHIG.

Hand 2 was the one I was completely lost on. I called the 3-bet on the flop planning to check/raise the turn, then called the turn 3-bet planning to go for the trifecta on the river. But then when the board paired, I didn't want to check/raise myself into a 3-bet that I'd have to call...so I figured that bet/call was a better proposition.

Villian called the river bet with a badly overplayed KTo, and MHIG. I can't imagine what convinced him to 3-bet the turn c/r with four to a straight on the board, but more power to him.

Hand 3 I was pretty sure I messed up, and everyone seems to agree. In hindsight, I tend to agree with prevailing thought...that the turn raise was just spewing vs. this opponent. I will at least explain my reasoning at the time:

First of all, I 3-bet preflop because, while this guy wasn't a great poker player by any means, he did know the difference between a full table and heads up play. So his openraise would have been pretty much any 2 that he decided to play...it's what I'd been doing to him, and what he'd been doing to me. I figured that the JT was ahead of a good number of hands he'd open with, and either way I wanted to build as much of a pot as possible with a good drawing hand (and take control of the hand).

I called the flop bet with my gutshot & the very good possibility that he was donking with second pair or less. I should have mentioned that he was pretty aggressive in my read.

The turn raise....I hadn't taken this line against him yet, but I had seen him use it several times before the table depopulated when he'd flopped 2 pair or better. Generally speaking, when a player likes to use a particular line himself, he'll assume that any opponent who uses it is using it for the same reason...I thought that I stood a better chance of folding something less than top pair than I normally would. And if I didn't fold him, there's also the metagame to consider...this sets me up to use this same line when I do flop a huge hand against him. Not to mention the possibility of tilting him when he calls and I hit my draw on the river.

Well...he 3-bet me with K9o for top two pair. I know this because I rivered my 7 and he called the raise (the 7 was a spade, otherwise I think I could've capped the river). To his credit, he didn't really tilt, but he did have some nice compliments for me in the chat box. /images/graemlins/wink.gif