Standard, or overzealous value bet attempt

[C-Dog]

Villain is new to the table, and hasnt done anything out of the ordinary.

Is the river a bet/fold situation? I figured that he had 2 pair, or maybe a set of 3s, and that I had sucked out on him on the turn.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

[Sakuraba]

What is his hand range for calling preflop UTG. It is really hard to put him on a range of hands withough knowing if he plays hands like Q3, Q7, J3, J7, or 73 UTG.

Without knowing that, bet folding the river would be absolutely terrible. He could easily have Q3 or Q7 and you would be folding the best hand. Also, if he has something that you beat, he is almost always going to bet anything that he would have called with anyway. Bet/folding is not better then check/calling if you are ahead or behind.

[C-Dog]

I have problems putting people on UTG limp hands. Since i never do it, I am not sure what the average unknown would do it with. Also, I tend to think that anyone wo UTG limps is pretty bad, so I would lean toward a small pair, or any two suited cards. Is there a general range people put on unknown UTG limpers?

[adamstewart]

Preflop: standard

Flop: good

Turn: Good, but after he caps your plan should be to call/call for the showdown.


River: Check/call


Adam

[Sakuraba]

You said he was new to the table, but did not do anything out of the ordinary. I just saw the second part, so I thought you had some read on him.

In general, you don't need to put him on any particular hand. You just have to determine if he is loose enough to limp with random junk like Q7 or not. If he wouldn't play a hand, you can take it out of the range that he could have.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: standard

Flop: good

Turn: Good, but after he caps your plan should be to call/call for the showdown.


River: Check/call


Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

What sort of hand range would you put him on after the turn cap, Adam?

[C-Dog]

Are you advocating a check/fold instead of a check/call. I was thinking the most likely holding is an inferior 2 Pair, or maybe 33.

C-Dog

[wackjob]

Listen to Adam, he is right on.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you advocating a check/fold instead of a check/call. I was thinking the most likely holding is an inferior 2 Pair, or maybe 33.

C-Dog

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, I'm definitely showing down. I was just trying to estimate our river equity.

I would play the hand like u. Bet the river with the intention of calling a raise. He could have 77, 33 or a worse 2-pair. I could even put him on AA. But your hand is good enough very often. So u got to call

[MrBig30]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: standard
Flop: good
Turn: Good, but after he caps your plan should be to call/call for the showdown.
River: Check/call
Adam

[/ QUOTE ]


Sounds good, but I am betting/calling river against an unknown and if he has 77/33 so be it. If he normally is passive check/call.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: standard

Flop: good

Turn: Good, but after he caps your plan should be to call/call for the showdown.


River: Check/call


Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

Adam is right. River is a clear check call in my mind.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]


What sort of hand range would you put him on after the turn cap

[/ QUOTE ]

Not something we beat 66% of the time.

Krishan

[adamstewart]

For those advocating "bet/fold" the river ...

that is a horrible play - worse than bet/call.

You'll be folding a better hand a fair percentage of the time, especially against an unknown.


Adam

[C-Dog]

It seems the decision is split between bet/call, and check/call. If anyone cares the player showed down JJ and took the pot...

C-Dog

[testaaja]

[ QUOTE ]
For those advocating "bet/fold" the river ...

that is a horrible play - worse than bet/call.

You'll be folding a better hand a fair percentage of the time, especially against an unknown.


Adam

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes and how the hell can someone fold to this big pot with likely the best hand? I'm just curious. Don't be weak! You need to call this one.

[Smarty]

I would check/call this river. Looks like 77 to me.