Spot my mistake...

[Ed Miller]

Good 10-20 game at Muckleshoot. Four limpers to me in the SB with the K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif. I raise. BB folds and the limpers call. 5 to the flop with 11 SB in the pot.

Flop comes K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif. I bet, EP and MP call. 3 to the turn with 7 BB in the pot. Turn is the J /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif. I bet, EP raises, MP 3-bets. I call, EP calls. River is the 7 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif. I check, EP bets, MP calls $10 allin, I call.

[Tyler Durden]

Your mistake was not folding preflop. OKay, I'm joking.

Your mistake was betting out on the flop. Joking again!

I think your mistake was not capping the turn.

[MHoydilla]

You should have raised the river. If EP had the nuts he would have 4 bet the turn.

[cero_z]

mk,
I see 2 possible mistakes. Not raising the river is one, since EP would almost certainly 4-bet any str8 on the turn. The other one sorta depends on the MP. If he/she's like many players, the 3-bet on the turn could be desperation coupled with being nearly all-in. In this case, I presume that the 3-bet slowed you down because you didn't notice that MP was nearly all-in. If you had, I suspect you'd have 4-bet the turn.

[elysium]

hi major
you had a bad night tonight. you made far worse plays than this. not many, just a couple. and you have to loosen now and again on rare occasions, it's good for the game. you don't make a habit of it, but tonight some of your loose plays went to far. hands you never should have been in but got into to show a little action went too far. then this happened. well, you played flawlessly here major. no one can or will say otherwise. the hands your not telling us about, well we all do it on rare occasions. now you can tighten up. i hope you didn't show here. i'm looking at perfect here. the ones your not telling us about, forget about them. you played a couple hands that everyone else was playing. thats why they they call it 2+2; we only play a couple like that, everyone else plays at least four.

[PokerPrince]

Not capping the turn.

PokerPrince

[elysium]

hi
i think major is against 10,9s here and wants to know if there was anything he could have done to win. EP looks like the straight on the river. EP knows that he will be called since major called the 3 bet. i think major played it perfectly

[bernie]

what? capping the turn? that depends on if you think someone has you beat here. if they do, you dont have enough players to pump this draw with +EV.

or raising the river? to gain a bet from the EP since you likely have him beat since he only called the turn raise. (meaning he doesnt have the str8)

the river is the only place i can see it. however, if you saw that a raise wouldve put the guy allin and you think the EP wouldve called, a raise on the turn couldve been a good play. it couldve made the side pot bigger if the EP also calls a river bet.

b

[Ed Miller]

Well, I thought I should have raised the river. I didn't think clearly once I saw that MP was allin. Anyway, EP had QJo for drawing stone dead on the turn, and MP had the expected ATo.

[SoBeDude]

Well I cheated and looked at the results, but my guess was QJ for 2 pair. Its been my experience that when you show strength preflop, on the flop, then get raised on the turn, they have a hand...and more of a hand than just a pair. They have at least 2 pair or a set. In my experience, its greater than 85% accurate.

Its hard to do, but you were beat on the turn and should have folded.

-Scott

[elysium]

hi major
what i meant when i said EP with the straight on the river was that the EP, upon seeing the flush not get there and now betting with the straight on the river. of course, he didn't have the straight on the river. he never had the straight at all. i'm correcting an incorrect read; it's still incorrect but at least it's now clearly incorrect.

[Lee Jones]

Er, that would be a way bad idea. Even if the guy turned over the straight. Major is drawing at 10 outs. Evenif the third guy turned over his hand and Major saw that he was down to eight outs, it'd be a trivial call.

I also want to point out the "all-in" effect, that changes quite a bit from player to player. But a lot of players (more than you might think) will use those last chips as an excuse to raise forever. Then they can just sit back and see who wins. It's not a very profitable way to play poker, but a lot of people use it.

Also realize that Major has an honest to goodness monster. Sure, there's a hand or two that beats him. Stuff happens. But there are also hands that look like (lesser) monsters that he beats. Would anybody be astonished to see a set of queens put in a third bet here?

Back to his original question, I think a raise on the river would have been appropriate, but I don't know that I would have had the presence of mind to do it either, because I would have been agonizing over the fact that my beautiful top set was about to go down in flames to a flipping gutshot.

Regards, Lee

[bernie]

there is no way in hell you could pry those cards out of my hand on the turn. this is a huge mistake to fold here with top set. bottom set is possible, but not with a str8 possible on the board.

there are times, with enough players, that if they tuned their hand over and had you beat where you can still pump the draw.

youre playing way to weak tight and worse if youre folding a set here...

it would take a huge bet in n/l for me to fold this on the turn. and this isnt n/l.

b

[SoBeDude]

thats what I get for trying to respond to a forum with no sleep.

I completely missed the set. dear lord...

-Scott

[nichtgut]

Hi
I haven't read the results yet.
I think with MP almost all-in on the turn you should have re-raised / capped.
Now you called and when EP bet out on the river you should have raised for value because even if you lose to MPs straight the possibility that EP has a straight is small given he just called on the turn.

Nicht Gut