First hand, flopped set

[Solovon]

I'm wondering if I played this correctly. Obviously, there are no reads since this is my first hand at the table. I'm 90% sure I'm beaten by the river, but should I still have called the 2 bets with my FH in this very large pot?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.70 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (18.70 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.70 BB

[aK13]

Counterfeited full houses suck, but you can't call the river for 2, probably not even for 1.

[Eeegah]

Oh man, talk about the worst possible river. You're almost certainly beat, but I'd call anyway because I just can't fold a boat /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[macdaddy991]

Terrible river, I want to fold here, Don't think you are good one in ten times here, but personally would crying call and then throw my mouse

[istewart]

No, good river fold. Turn play seems alright but MP2's cap is very worrisome. Take note of WTF BB had that he donkbet each street with.

[Brice]

That does suck. But someone is going to stick arond with top pair after that flop or even second pair. Even though this is a big pot, I think you have to kick it in because for sure you are beaten.

[grjr]

This is for the guys making the crying call on the river. Are you nuts? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Do you really think there's ANY chance that neither of those two raisers have a J? I'd put it at 90% that they BOTH have a J (although it does worry me that OP posted this question in the first place).

Anyways, barring some miracle that OP would have won this hand, there's one more thing to think about. If we do call the two bets on the river there's a good chance we're going to have to call two more before we're done. BB didn't reraise on the river because he probably thought he was splitting the pot. However, if he has our dead money trapped in between (if we call) then he's probably going to kick it up again and MP2 will cap it.

So....for 4 BB I ain't calling here no way no how.

[imported_The Vibesman]

I make a lot of loose river calls, and this is one I would throw away, possibly even if it was just one bet, I certainly wouldn't overcall anyone. You can't call two bets, someone has to have you beat here.

[Taxmanrick]

Good fold. I would hate it, but it would have to be done. When things like this happen, I always try to look on the bright side, These people stayed in and sucked out on you...that won't happen very often...in fact , most of the time you get paid off big time!!! I used to let it bother me, but now, I just smile and say to myself, what a money-making table i've got here!!!

[Baloosh]

I'd click the "fold face up" button and instill the fear of GOD into the table.

[Taxmanrick]

I don't know...I'd want them to think I was just some idiot that called down with nothing, realized that I couldn't bluff them anymore, and folded. Although sometimes you do get pissed!!!!!!!!!!

[Greg J]

This is a crying fold. Good lay down.

[Dave G.]

I think you played it fine.

MP2 looks like he has the J, but I think 2 pair with the Js would cap the flop, so on the turn I don't think you're up against a bigger boat. Who knows what BB is screwing around with. Cap the turn every time. I'd cap a less sucky river.

Only call this river if you hate money.

[Solovon]

I've read so much about never folding in a large pot on the river when you have a decent hand, so I was worried about my fold here.

Results:
<font color="white">*** SHOW DOWN ***
MP2: shows [Ks Jh] (a full house, Jacks full of Fives)
BB: shows [Qd Qh] (two pair, Queens and Jacks ) </font>

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read so much about never folding in a large pot on the river when you have a decent hand, so I was worried about my fold here.

Results:
<font color="white">*** SHOW DOWN ***
MP2: shows [Ks Jh] (a full house, Jacks full of Fives)
BB: shows [Qd Qh] (two pair, Queens and Jacks ) </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying that BB isn't the sharpest crayon in the box? I didn't notice that he just called your 3 bet on the turn because I was blinded by the donkbet on the river. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hobiecat]

If the river fold is good (and I think it is), isn't 3 betting the turn a mistake? BB is confusing to me but the jack seems overwhelmingly likely for MP2. Of course the river card just makes things worse but I'd probably still fold even it had been a blank.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
If the river fold is good (and I think it is), isn't 3 betting the turn a mistake? BB is confusing to me but the jack seems overwhelmingly likely. Of course the river card just makes things worse but I'd probably still fold even it had been a blank.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, would that be a colossal mistake. With a board of 4 5 J J we're probaly ahead 90% of the time. That's why we get all the bets we can in on the turn. If the river is another small card (besides the 5) we get all the bets we can in again.

Now....if the board were 4QJJ or 4TJJ then we have more to worry about and would be more careful since more people play QJ or JT than J5.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
If the river fold is good (and I think it is), isn't 3 betting the turn a mistake? BB is confusing to me but the jack seems overwhelmingly likely for MP2.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the turn, a bare J is drawing to four outs against us. Why the hell wouldn't you bet/raise/reraise/cap?

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
If the river fold is good (and I think it is), isn't 3 betting the turn a mistake? BB is confusing to me but the jack seems overwhelmingly likely for MP2. Of course the river card just makes things worse but I'd probably still fold even it had been a blank.

[/ QUOTE ]

The naked jack does not win this for MP2, we have a full house, while he would have trip jacks. The double board pairing on the river is the problem here, esp since both pairs are overpair to our set. Anyone with a 5 has made 5's full, anyone w/ a jack has made jacks full, and only one of the above would raise the river. The three bet on the turn is because we are ahead at that point. Folding to a blank is insanity.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
If the river fold is good (and I think it is), isn't 3 betting the turn a mistake? BB is confusing to me but the jack seems overwhelmingly likely for MP2. Of course the river card just makes things worse but I'd probably still fold even it had been a blank.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know that Full House &gt; 3 of a kind?

[Wetdog]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a crying fold. Good lay down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we should remember this term and forget about "crying call." nh

Miller says to call in a large pot if you have a reasonable chance of winning. Our read of the betting action says that our yacht is sunk by a destroyer (or two).

[hobiecat]

Yeah, forget I ever asked. That's got to be one of the worst second posts ever. :-) I do know full house beats trips and looking at it now I can't imagine what made me post at all let alone ask such an inane question. A thousand apologies.