$22 early - TT in BB, four limpers, re-raised when I pop - Hero does?

[jedinite]

Curious what everyone thinks the correct action is here.

SmallBlind has one won pot so far - they chased and caught the nut flush (with no full house or SF possible) on the river, were bet into by the person who lead the flop and the turn, and this person only called with the nuts. So I immediately give them a note that ammounts to "probably inexperienced".

Here's the hand:

NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee
Level:2 Blinds(15/30)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 5: Folder ( $835 )
Seat 10: folder ( $955 )
Seat 8: HERO ( $855 )
Seat 9: Limper-1 ( $730 )
Seat 6: Limper-3 ( $625 )
Seat 3: folder ( $1270 )
Seat 1: Limper-2 ( $495 )
Seat 7: SmallBlind ( $960 )
Seat 2: folder ( $1275 )
Trny:14758784 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Th Td ]
Limper-1 calls [30].
folder folds.
Limper-2 calls [30].
folder folds.
folder folds.
Folder folds.
Limper-3 calls [30].
SmallBlind calls [15].
HERO raises [70].
Limper-1 calls [70].
Limper-2 folds.
Limper-3 folds.
SmallBlind raises [140].
HERO ???

Bonus question - was the raise preflop wrong?? Raise bigger or not at all?

I play this to hit a set early..i wouldn't raise i'd call a small raise and check fold when flop brings overs with no 10.

[Pete H]

Here's another check - check/fold without set/undercards

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Bonus question - was the raise preflop wrong??

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Yes

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Raise bigger or not at all?

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Yes.

I might put that kind of raise in LP without limpers.

There's 3 limpers. If you follow 3xBB + BB/per limper rule, you should make it 180. Little bit less, like 150 might be enough.

I don't like to put in that kind of raise OOP and then check/fold most flops when overcards hit.

Also if you get reraised preflop, it's most likely push, and I'd have to fold my TT.

So checking is the safest way.

[flytrap]

I would raise this preflop almost every time. There are 4 hands better than TT, and since no one raised, you are most likely ahead here. Make it 175, and you'll usually win preflop. If someone limps then goes all-in, I'd fold, but making it 175 should get it at least heads up, where an overcard won't mean you have to check/fold.

[lastchance]

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I would raise this preflop almost every time. There are 4 hands better than TT, and since no one raised, you are most likely ahead here. Make it 175, and you'll usually win preflop. If someone limps then goes all-in, I'd fold, but making it 175 should get it at least heads up, where an overcard won't mean you have to check/fold.

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There are 5 hands better than TT. Just because TT is a favorite over AK doesn't mean it's any better, and it's not. AKs gets more equity in a field like this, and AK is just better most of the time.

Plus, AK either hits or doesn't. A J53 board is much more dangerous for TT then AK, especially in a raised pot, whereas checking allows you to play this hand very easily and straightforwardly. (autocheck-flop, fold most of the time, raise set, raise/call/fold overpair depending on action)

I really like the check OOP here.

[45suited]

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I would raise this preflop almost every time. There are 4 hands better than TT, and since no one raised, you are most likely ahead here. Make it 175, and you'll usually win preflop. If someone limps then goes all-in, I'd fold, but making it 175 should get it at least heads up, where an overcard won't mean you have to check/fold.

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I agree with lastchance that this is a check here.

But did you notice the bolded part here? Seems like another reason to take my EP line in levels 1 and 2 with AK. The limp / re-raise push would take a very nice pot here if done by AK from EP. Just had to throw that in there. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[flytrap]

Why is AK better than TT on a J53 flop? TT has a pair, that heads up is probably good, whereas AK has nothing, which may be good. If I'm heads up with TT on that flop, I'm definately betting, whereas with ak, I may still bet, but not as often as with TT. Also, when I mentioned that it's the 5th best hand, I was refering to it being a favorite, and that you'll be ahead on the flop most of the time against all but JJ+, which is where the last decision will be made in the hand if you raise pf. AK is certainly a fine hand, and may very well be better than TT, and if we were talking all-in pf then I'd take AK, but that's not what we have here. In this specific example, the play is to raise pf.

[flytrap]

If AK wants to take the limp/reraise line here, and get me to fold my hand, then more power to him. Most of the time, this play means AA/KK. Especially when I raised out of the blind, meaning I have a pretty strong hand. It would take some real Cajones to reraise all-in here with AK.

[45suited]

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If AK wants to take the limp/reraise line here, and get me to fold my hand, then more power to him. Most of the time, this play means AA/KK. Especially when I raised out of the blind, meaning I have a pretty strong hand. It would take some real Cajones to reraise all-in here with AK.

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It's my standard line with AK from EP in levels 1 and 2. But it should make you feel better that most people think I'm a bit of an idiot for doing this. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[flytrap]

I've taken that line a few times myself, and it's not a bad play, but I wouldn't expect it from most people, therefore I'm folding TT if I get reraised by a limper. If I played you often enough I might take AK into account, but as it stands now, the limp/reraise means I'm folding TT most of the time.

[lastchance]

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If AK wants to take the limp/reraise line here, and get me to fold my hand, then more power to him. Most of the time, this play means AA/KK. Especially when I raised out of the blind, meaning I have a pretty strong hand. It would take some real Cajones to reraise all-in here with AK.

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The problem is, people get POed at your constant raising and limp-reraise you with anything that TT has owned. I find it very hard to laydown to a reraise from a donk that just says "stop raising my limps dammit."

TT is better than AK on a multiway J53 flop because TT is a vulnerable hand with tons of reverse implied odds. It's easy to fold AK here, but it's not so good to play TT that way.

There are very few times you're getting HU even with a signifigant raise, and a lot of those times, you have no idea where Villain can be at.

I really prefer checking here.

[Pete H]

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Why is AK better than TT on a J53 flop? TT has a pair, that heads up is probably good, whereas AK has nothing, which may be good. If I'm heads up with TT on that flop, I'm definately betting, whereas with ak, I may still bet, but not as often as with TT.

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If you bet and villain pushes do you call? If you don't, you've pissed half of your chips away and you have no idea if you were actually beaten or did he just bluff you out with A high.

And if you autocheck/fold when A, K or both flop without T, you give 175 chips (or what was your preflop raise) away 1/3 of flops you see.

With these short stacks I definitely want to see cheap flop with my OOP TT.

[Isura]

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I would raise this preflop almost every time. There are 4 hands better than TT, and since no one raised, you are most likely ahead here. Make it 175, and you'll usually win preflop. If someone limps then goes all-in, I'd fold, but making it 175 should get it at least heads up, where an overcard won't mean you have to check/fold.

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There are 5 hands better than TT. Just because TT is a favorite over AK doesn't mean it's any better, and it's not. AKs gets more equity in a field like this, and AK is just better most of the time.

Plus, AK either hits or doesn't. A J53 board is much more dangerous for TT then AK, especially in a raised pot, whereas checking allows you to play this hand very easily and straightforwardly. (autocheck-flop, fold most of the time, raise set, raise/call/fold overpair depending on action)

I really like the check OOP here.

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Why are you guys assuming that you're always getting called. I almost always make it 150-175 here preflop and play some poker if called. I think we take the pot down enough times to make raising profitable. Actually, I think pushing preflop is better. That 150 is a nice boost to our stack, and we're much more likely to get called by worst hands than better ones. CHecking here gives up a lot of value IMO.

Edit: Okay, so pushign is much better the more I think about it. It seems overly weak-tight playing TT like 22 here. I don't mind a check in level 1, but the pot is already big enough and TT is the perfect hand to push. And I love it when some donkey puts me on AK and calls with his 44 in this spot. Much more likely than someone getting tricky with AA-QQ.

[bennies]

I like pushing too...

[Maulik]

pushing, because its good at the low limits.

otherwise enter "master of the check/fold" to anything but unders or a set.